015 – What happens in our kids’ body and mind when they lose control? – With Mercedes Oromendia

Anouk:

Welcome to the podcast. Today, we will address one of the most pressing question, what happens in our kids' body and mind and in ourselves when they are losing it and when we are losing it? And, also, where ways to calm ourself and helping our kids regulate when they're starting to spiral down. In addition to that, we will address also some parenting expectation versus reality and parenting each children differently from one another, and we'll touch on the reality of having an adopted or foster kid. So a lot of topics today. We'll do that with our guest, Mercedes Ramindya. Doctor Mercedes is a trilingual biocultural girl psychologist with expertise in parenting, children and family, and trauma. She has experience in helping parents develop the skills and tool to parent with joy and ease. She has worked with her wide range of parents from immigrant farm workers, billionaires, adoptive parents, foster parents, and more.

Anouk:

Currently, she is the chief clinical officer at Manatee, a pediatric mental health start up, supercharging the traditional therapy model with tech enabled support for kids and families. The app makes it easier for parents to actively participate in their child's mental health journey, which I think is wonderful. So without further ado, let's welcome Mercedes on the podcast

Anouk:

Welcome to Parenting the Intensity, where we'll talk all about how we can drop the general parenting advice that doesn't work with our emotionally intense kids anyway and let go of the unrealistic expectations society puts on us as parents. Together, we'll find solution and ideas that work for you and your kids. Chances are, deep down, you know what they need. But you need a little encouragement to keep going on other days and permission to do things differently And help you fully trust that you already are a wonderful parent to your exceptional but challenging kids.

Anouk:

So welcome to the podcast. Welcome, Mercedes. I'm really happy you're here with us today, especially since the topic that we will discuss is probably the most requested one. Like, both topic, basically. We'll we'll cover the things that my more more ask about, which are to help our kids calm down and Aldo to calm down ourselves, and in addition, having also the information about why what is happening. So I'm very, excited to dive in that with you today.

Mercedes Oromendia:

And I love talking about this, so thank you for having me.

Anouk:

Glad to have you. But before we dive in that topic, you specialize with supporting foster and adoptive family. So I wanted to address that specifics in in part because I do have a program that address the story of a child to help understand what's happening and the triggers and things like that. And I know and it's it's the it's in the program that it's not realistic for everybody. Like, not everyone can go back to the, like, pregnancy or birth of the child even if like, sometime you adopted and you know all those things, but sometimes you just not not know. So I would love for you to address that specific of raising a child you might not know the entire history and medical history of.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Yeah. Absolutely. And you don't know it, and your brain likes to make you know, fill in the blanks.

Anouk:

Yeah.

Mercedes Oromendia:

We don't know. We accidentally fill in the blanks without even realizing it. I think that's something we need to be very mindful of too.

Anouk:

So what

Mercedes Oromendia:

are the things that we don't we may just be jumping to conclusions quickly based on our own history or based than what we read maybe on the little information we do have about the child or what we assume a child that's adopted from Just, you know, specific situation may have experienced.

Anouk:

Yeah. So can we, like, expect the child to have more trauma than they actually have, for example?

Mercedes Oromendia:

Exactly. So as you You know, I'm a psychologist, and, just to give you an example, I'm changing some details for privacy sake, but I had a you know, I was working with a 3 year old that was recently placed with, a mom. So he was from foster care here in LA, And he was placed with a parent that didn't really know him yet. Right? They had been together for a week. Mhmm. So if we can imagine, now you have a 3 year old with you. You're older. Really? Yeah.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Wow. And so you're really trying to understand who the child is, and you're Drawing a lot of conclusions, every little decision the child makes, right, every little movement thing that they do or don't do. And this child, you know, came to my office and grabbed a knife and the mom a plate knife. And the mom goes, see. Look. He's being aggressive. And I said, well, let's wait and see what let's take a minute. Right? Let's take a deep breath and see what he does.

Anouk:

Mhmm.

Mercedes Oromendia:

What this child ended up doing was he grabbed a pretend we had a not pretend, a plastic cake That had different slices, and he cut the cake and asked, you know, doctor Mercedes, do you want vanilla or chocolate? You know, do you and then ask the this foster parent, do you want vanilla or chocolate? And give it to us. That's very prosocial. Really? A full

Anouk:

week. Year old. It's it's

Mercedes Oromendia:

great. And very connecting.

Anouk:

Yeah.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Like, just grabbing that knife For this foster parent, jump to, oh my gosh. I know the child's history. I they've been you know, all these things that have Happened. They've been abandoned. They witnessed domestic violence. They've been victim of violence, perhaps. Mhmm. This means that, They're gonna be aggressive.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Mhmm. Mhmm. Right? But if we took a minute to just see, maybe the child will show us. Maybe He will be aggressive, and then we need to manage that and respond to those needs. Maybe he won't, and we have to give you know, slow ourselves down, hold ourselves So we can give the child the opportunity to have these moments of joy and

Anouk:

Sure. Patient. Sure. And it's it's it's like any children. We need to leave them the space and the chance to express themselves, basically, and show what they really want, what they really need.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Exactly. And even if he know and if he did you know, if this child grabbed the knife and did something that was more aggressive, then we would Probably saw it somewhere, and then we would address it and what's going on. And, yeah, it makes sense. Suddenly, a week before, he was In a different setting, and now there's different tools, different parents, different smells, different sounds.

Anouk:

I would be frustrated. I would be Yes. For sure, like, it would be that would be completely understandable too. But it's not because we are. It's interesting because it can apply to so many contacts that sometimes we're expecting kids to do something, and we're

Mercedes Oromendia:

projecting. Oh, so much. We A lot of the time we do the I mean, this happens with bio kits too. That's why labels are so concerning. Right? When you say, oh, yeah. Yeah. This is the quiet one, and this is the feisty

Anouk:

one. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Sure. And we do that. Our brains are naturally wired to categorize.

Anouk:

Yeah. It's easier to understand the world

Mercedes Oromendia:

that way. Exactly. So that's not bad. When we catch ourselves, we don't have to say, like, oh, that's bad. I feel shame. I feel because that's just gonna make us

Anouk:

No. Warm is no. No. We we tag ourself as a bad parent, which is also a tag, which is not good.

Mercedes Oromendia:

It those tags. Exactly. So then thinking, okay. Wait. Let's hold on a second. Sure. This child can be the spicy one. Right? Or we can but what else When else are they not this? Or what else can I call it? What other labels can I use intentionally? Yeah.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Right. Even parents might use labels that are they might think it's funny, or they might think that it fits. You know, for me, when I was growing up, my dad very lovingly would call me the crazy one because I have 4 kids, and I was Creative, and I love coming up with you know, I would put on puppet shows and do play with my cousins, and I was, like, the ringleader in that. It was leadership skills. But when I heard it, for me, it was crazy. Crazy is not bad. Right? And so really being careful what words we use.

Anouk:

Yeah, creative or leader would be better for sure. But then even though sometimes and And I would say mostly the creative might not, although but, like, leader, then sometime it forces you as a kid to always be the leader. And when you're not feeling it, like, you you force yourself to live up to that label too. So Even the the positive one sometimes can have downsized.

Mercedes Oromendia:

The kind one. Right? You're so kind. You're so motherly. Women tend to girls tend to get that one so much. You're so caring, so kind. Sometimes I don't wanna Sometimes I don't wanna be caring. Sometimes I just want to focus on me. And and is there room for that? Right? Or do I have to be always the one that's Yeah.

Mercedes Oromendia:

My younger sibling or

Anouk:

yeah. Definitely. And I I agree. Like, that applies to to bio kids it's also like, I can definitely say that when my older 2 were little, my first one was not like, he's not really when he hurts himself, it doesn't hurt. Like, it takes a lot of pain for him to feel pain, like, a lot. And so, you know, when we are referred for kids, often we're like, are you okay? But then I kind of got used to not even ask because it was just getting up and Running running out again, and, like, that was normal. But my second one is highly sensitive, so it was a completely opposite experience. But at the beginning, I was kind of not expecting how she would react because I was so used as a of a kid that would not feel pain at all.

Anouk:

Exactly. Me a a little while to adjust for that because I was not expecting those reactions. So I think that's a very small example, but it can apply in so many contexts.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Oh, and a very real example. Right? The the second1 is never like the first one. There's no kids the same. And so No. Doesn't matter how many kids you have. Right? You'd never copy and paste, so you're always gonna be learning new things. And you're

Anouk:

different. Yeah.

Mercedes Oromendia:

You're a Parent and your different experiences that have happened to you. And so how you respond to their needs are different you know, is different too.

Anouk:

Yeah. Definitely. And I like, there's a I feel the movements so, like, that we see a lot that we should treat our kids the same, which for me makes no sense because no their kids are the same. So I I would make sense to treat them the same. Like, we need to treat them, like, equitably, but not equally.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Like, that doesn't work. Yeah. And, I mean, treating them the same, what that does is it just shows them I don't see you. Or what? It doesn't matter who you are or what you need. Right? Mhmm. But if you think about your 2 children, The one you know, let's say if you say, okay. When they fall, I'm going to ignore the 1st time. If they keep crying after 1 minute, then I'm gonna respond.

Anouk:

Mhmm.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Great. The first one's gonna feel that maybe you're being overbearing. Yeah. I feel like I'm gonna stop it. I'm fine. I don't feel or, like, you know, maybe they're not even crying. They're like, no.

Anouk:

I feel

Mercedes Oromendia:

so yeah. I felt I'm fine. Just stop.

Anouk:

Like, mom, get away. Just yeah. Leave me alone. I just wanna continue playing.

Mercedes Oromendia:

And maybe you and then then you start that push pull relationship and overbearing and feeling like, What is this? Like, I does she think I can't do this? I feel fine. Should I be more concerned? Right? Those Mhmm. Insecurity, things can start happening. And then for younger one, maybe she feels, you know, why did it take her so long? Does you not seem really hurting? Like, this is really difficult, and

Anouk:

Mhmm.

Mercedes Oromendia:

I wish you were here sooner. Right? And and so you missed vote on both just because it's not

Anouk:

Definitely. Definitely. So it's like adjusting to each child, and, like, I can say now that I've had her, she's kind of The middle, but depends upon what. Yeah. But the might May 2 first was so extreme that most of the time, 3rd falls somewhere in the middle, but She's still different than the 2 other ones. You know? Exactly. Yeah. So and it's definitely, like it it takes I was kind of forced into parenting them differently because they're so different.

Anouk:

But I find when our kids are like, it's not always the case. Often, kids are not that different, And so it's easy to try and do the same thing.

Mercedes Oromendia:

And then it's tricky because then when they get a little older, they'll start saying, right, it's not fair. What and and I think that's part of why the parents do it is because they don't the parents don't wanna feel they're being unfair. Differently? Step is doing that work yourself and knowing you know, being comfortable. No. I'm doing this. It it is actually fair. It might not be the same. Like, you're saying equity and inequality is very 2 very different things, and I I'm doing this because I believe this is the best thing for this child? And you could say, you know, you're right.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Your brother was able to bike to school by themselves when they were your age, and you can't but remember, We're still working on those skills. When you went to the store the other day, you forgot your wallet there. So that shows me you're not quite ready yet. Like, we're work let's work on that until right? You will eventually. No doubt. And then there's things that you do before your brother.

Anouk:

Mhmm.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Right. And so really helping them understand that development is not linear, and they won't always do the same. But no. Like, it's Fair you know, it doesn't have to be the same, and it won't be the same. That's never really the

Anouk:

expectation. No. And, like, telling them that also helps them Understand themselves better and understand the fact that being different is just normal, which is which is huge. Yeah. So I would love to dive into the main topic that we were here, and I know is the one that is the most in demand, which is why our children are acting, how they're acting. And, of course, like, the triggers, there are multiple triggers that can happen, multiple reasons, multiple, like, history of why. But still, there's a reaction in the body that claims why children are reacting very intensely? So that's what we're we're addressing today. So can you explain to us what's happening in our children body when they're just out of control?

Mercedes Oromendia:

Yeah. And I think what's happening in our kids and what's happening for us, Right. Somebody's in interaction. They help me. So I love using the Dan Siegel's for a hand brain model. Have you talked about that before with your list? K. So Dan Siegel is really an expert in child development and has a great way of Explaining. There's some really helpful YouTube videos.

Mercedes Oromendia:

I can share the links with your years later, but it's really helpful. And I use it with kids too to explain it, And I use it with parents, and now I'll, you know, I'll explain a little bit more. I'll try to do this not visually, but to use your hand to explain the brain. What we know is The prefrontal cortex, this is by your forehead, really is where what makes us human. Right? It's what helps us think, plan be able to inhibit our behaviors? So right now, I would love to go, you know, for breakfast. It's early morning here in Los Angeles. I would love to To just have, let's say, a chocolate cake. That feels great to me.

Mercedes Oromendia:

But why am I not doing that for breakfast? Because I'm thinking Rationally. Okay. I'm gonna stop. Maybe I'll have that for dessert tonight, but, you know, maybe I'll just have salad. You know? Right? And I'll have something healthier for breakfast. Mhmm. That's my prefrontal cortex, thinking logically. Or when I get mad, maybe I do wanna run away sometimes, and I get upset, but I don't do it.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Right? Or if I'm talking to, a friend and I'm getting frustrated, I can calm myself down. That's all your prefrontal cortex. So that's The biggest part that we're the human the animals that have the biggest prefrontal cortex, and that is behind our forehead. And we represent that with our fingers if you're holding your hand up. And then we have The palm of our hand and this is the back of our brain. That's what we call the reptile brain. Mhmm. And that's much more emotional.

Mercedes Oromendia:

That's reactive. Right. That's that fight, flight, or freeze. Or now we added the fawn. Mhmm. So now there's four f's. Fawn. So fight is you're gonna go fight.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Mhmm. Freeze or you freeze. They're very inspiring. But fawn is really you're going to really, in a sense, fall and try to please the person. Right? So you're really gonna try to Like, enamor yourself with that person to to feel safe, and that's another way that we respond to these things. So, normally, you have that part of your brain. You're gonna have that reaction. Right? So you can imagine if you're talking to a friend, you can and they say something that Hurts your feelings or you're feeling reactive.

Mercedes Oromendia:

You're like, I no. And then you can start calming yourself down, and so your hand closes. Everything is working together. So you're still feeling

Anouk:

The fingers are closing on the impulse reaction, basically.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Exactly. You're still feeling the it's It's not that you're not feeling this, you know, what happened or if your child hits you. You're gonna get you're gonna feel defensive for a second. You're gonna You may wanna grab, you know, your hand or you because someone hit you. That is a personal offense, and that can feel a little painful and hurtful. Mhmm. Then you calm yourself down. You you engage your prefrontal cortex, and you're like, Oh, there are only 3.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Okay. What's going on? Deep breaths. You engage. You kinda close your you know, You're engaged so you close your hand in a sense, so your brain is all engaging together, and you're able to just take deep breaths. That's the ideal situation. Then something happens. But when you call you know, you flip your lid. That's when you can't your fingers are up, and you can't access those fingers.

Mercedes Oromendia:

So you can't access the prefrontal cortex. You're not thinking logically. A clear example for me is when I'm running late, And I'm worried, and I can't find the keys. They're right there. I can't see

Anouk:

them. Mhmm.

Mercedes Oromendia:

My brain's not thinking logically. That's when I'm right? I'm being clumsy. I'm forgetting things. That's That's because I'm so I'm not thinking clearly.

Anouk:

That's when things start to spiral and everything bad happens at the same time.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Exactly. 100%. And that's exactly what happens, not just to us, but also for the kids. Right? So, like, that's something that very much happens to kids. And when they're feeling regulated, they can recognize. They're feeling like, okay. This makes sense to me. I can access.

Mercedes Oromendia:

I remember my coping tools. I can go to my calm corner. I can ask for a hug. Right? All those things Mhmm. That will teach them. But then when their lid is

Anouk:

flipped There's no calming down.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Oh, and, you know, I had a A great supervisor one time say, it's in it's like trying to rationalize with a child when they're having a seizure. You would never do you would never talk to a child. You would triage. You would support their safety. Mhmm. And you would wait to have a conversation till after the seizure. Yeah. Yeah.

Mercedes Oromendia:

They know they can't think logically. Right? They can't access their brain at that point. Mhmm. Thing so so dysregulated.

Anouk:

Yeah. I love that. You said you you did that, parallel, and I think that's very important to remember and something that we so often don't do as parents, is just not talking. Yeah. In those moments, like and and I'm totally guilty of that. Like, I I'm trying hard not to, but it's so hard sometimes. And I think there's also, like, that level when They're just starting to lose control. You still sometimes can get them back while you talk.

Anouk:

But at some point, it's pointless to talk. But that little, like, when the flip is when exactly you should stop talking, sometimes it's Hard.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Yeah. And so there's a couple of things we can trick not tricks, but strategies I can teach you that might help sometimes. And you know your kid best. Right? So these are always what I say is I'm a partner with parents. I'm never gonna tell you exactly what to do because I don't know. Mhmm. We're always just experimenting and trying different things in learning from our kids.

Anouk:

Mhmm.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Totally. But something that is really important is to know when your lid is flipped Because then you're not gonna be able to access who you wanna be as a parent. That's when you're gonna say and do things you wanna take back.

Anouk:

Yeah. That when you go to bed at the end of the day and you're like, shit. That was a very bad parent today, or I regret that thing. And I I'll do better tomorrow, and then you start again because your bed is still flipped.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Exactly. Right? And so what I love saying sometimes to kids is like, you know what? My lid because you're modeling this. Right. My oh, I'm getting close. And you could have your own term. I'm like, oh, I'm my lid is about to be flipped. Mm-mm. I don't wanna say something or do something I'm gonna regret later.

Mercedes Oromendia:

I'm gonna take a little break. I'll come back. I love you. Obviously, safety is first, right, if they're if they're safe. They usually say, I'll come back because you're gonna come back. I love you. You wanna reiterate that. Right now, I need to take care of it.

Mercedes Oromendia:

I need to calm myself down because this is not gonna work. Yep. This is usually when parents will say something like, No TV for a year

Anouk:

Yeah.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Or or something even more hurtful sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of

Anouk:

labels make them You're always doing this, or you're never doing that. Or Exactly.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Or why did you do all these, like, portion that's when shame because it's comes out of fear for parents too. Parents are in fear, Really?

Anouk:

Yeah. And we've fought like, we fast run into, like, if they do that now, they're never gonna be functioning adults in their life. Exactly. Now And your brain runs so asked to.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Yeah. This means that then they're gonna end that they're gonna end up in prison, but and then that next thing you know, that's another thing. We're out of control. Exactly. And for kids, what I like to do is I just actually have a hand gesture. So parents use that too, right, with their kids. They're like. And sometimes I will call, and the kid might say yes.

Mercedes Oromendia:

And it's because you might be in an argument, and then you just lift up 4 fingers And ask. Right? And you could do it in a little kinda like like and the kid might say no. Like or yeah. Actually. Okay. Let's stop now before you, you know, you say or do something. You regret. You wanna talk about The you know, this before when they're

Anouk:

regulated. Course.

Mercedes Oromendia:

We never wanna first introduce any concept at that point. Like, that's not gonna work.

Anouk:

Mhmm. And I would say also that the When we're in that stage, we give consequences that make no sense. But any consequences that we want to give in a child that is not related, we'll just, most of the time escalate things, because they are not able to control what's happening. So giving consequences then, it's just It's just putting oil on the fire. It's not helpful at all.

Mercedes Oromendia:

No. Not at that point. Exactly. You're just and at that point, the goal is to regulate them. And when you reg so you're you were talking about when they're in that zone. Right?

Anouk:

Mhmm. In between.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Yeah. And it doesn't mean we wanna leave them alone when their lid is flipped. No. We can help them regulate. What what it means is this is not the time to teach them.

Anouk:

No. It's not today, and then you explain how the brain function.

Mercedes Oromendia:

And you're triaging. Or you explain them why you're mad. This is not the time to explain why you're mad, and they should have done the dishes and their chores like they said. This is not the time. So when their lid is flipped, the number one priority is let's get them regulated So that we can address what

Anouk:

happened. Mhmm.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Right? It's not some people confuse this and think, oh, you just regulate them, give them hugs, and then Everything's fine. No. No. Everything is not fine, and you can connect with them, support them. Right. So it's that complexity of life. We can't just do everything so mechanically. We first have to recognize they're human.

Mercedes Oromendia:

They're hurting. They're struggling. Let's support them there. And then, yes, absolutely, we need to address what happened.

Anouk:

Mhmm. And I find that what's often hard is that we don't take the time. We don't like, in life, there's so many time struggle. We're so often running that we feel that we cannot stop to do those things. And we cannot like, we are or we are doing them just in order to make things go faster and not really to connect with the child. That's ex

Mercedes Oromendia:

yeah. Exactly. And and the time go faster, that makes it so tricky Trying to really get everything done. Right? A lot of times, these things happen in the morning or at night. Yeah. So that's trying to get out of you know, we have to go to school. I have to go to work. I can't be late Or at night, we have to, you know, we have to get your sleep.

Mercedes Oromendia:

I need I still have to do all this work that I need to get done, so please just go to bed. Yeah. Yeah. What we know have helps is for, again, for most kids, not for every child, so you wanna really know your own child. One thing is just grounding exercises. So bring coming back to the moment. Right? Where are you? Because when their lid is lit, they're not even thinking about what's around them. So that can look like, hey.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Give me your hand. And you put, you know, a hand their hand on your hand, and you sandwich it. You know, like, this could be if they're a little younger. You know? A teenager might say Choice words for you if you say that.

Anouk:

Yeah. They might they might not wanna do that.

Mercedes Oromendia:

They might not wanna do that. But for younger, right, and like, Hey. Let's do a a hand sandwich, and, like, I love you. You're safe. You're here. We'll figure this out Yeah. They're making eye contact, coming down to their level, not screaming. When someone screams at you, your lid almost always gets flipped.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Yeah. That's very scary.

Anouk:

Yeah. It's in, like, automatically. Even if and I do I often tell that to my own children who does cream? Sometimes, like, you know, when you scream, my ear scream. I don't hear what you're saying. And Exactly. That's the same for children. When we scream, they don't hear what we're saying at all. Like, we're screaming.

Anouk:

We're you whatever we're saying, they don't understand what we're saying. And it's like getting out of and the the opposite, like, the example you were giving, we're talking. Because I was telling earlier, like, not talking, but you're talking. But, basically, what we wanted the kids to hear, it's not so much what we're saying than the tone that we're we are. Yeah. Thank

Mercedes Oromendia:

you for making that dis distinction. So it doesn't matter as much what we say.

Anouk:

Right? If you're

Mercedes Oromendia:

sitting next to them, sometimes it just means you sit next to them. You know, let's say they get They're sitting on the floor angry against a wall. Just gonna sit here with you. I'll be quiet.

Anouk:

That might be better with for teens.

Mercedes Oromendia:

For teens? Absolutely. Or for Absolutely. Or for teens even just saying like, hey. I see you're really having a hard time. Do you wanna be alone? Do you want me to sit here quietly? Right. Just giving them that agency too, but you're and you're seeing them. Hey. I know you're upset.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Let's figure out on helping you right now. Another thing is taking a bath or a shower.

Anouk:

Yeah. Yeah. That was one of mine was, like, was so full. She was out of control, and I would put her all dressed in the bathtub, and she would calm down when

Mercedes Oromendia:

To this day, I still send myself to shower when I'm upset because that's what instinctively my mom did with all of us.

Anouk:

And That's right.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Just say, you know, like, oh, why don't you go shower? Why don't you go shower? We know what to do when we

Anouk:

were in a visor. Everyone was super clean. Oh, yeah.

Mercedes Oromendia:

It it's just and now I realize that I'm just in a funk, and I can't you know? I call it, like, a fussy baby. When I feel like Everything's fine, but I'm just uncomfortable. I'm just in a bad mood, and I can't figure out what I need. Just gonna go shower.

Anouk:

That's an

Mercedes Oromendia:

interesting one. Your senses just kinda calm down. And as a parent, you can use that too, right, when you need Your own space if you know, ideally, you're like, you know what? I'm gonna go shower. Mhmm. And then we'll deal with this, whatever is going on.

Anouk:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mercedes Oromendia:

And there's a moment we know.

Anouk:

It's great. It's really sensory also, like water and the sound even and the warmth and all of it. It's It can be very

Mercedes Oromendia:

calming. Yeah. And that's exactly the next one I was gonna say. So senses are really grounding. If you can focus on there's Something called the 5432 or technique. So when you go and you ask kids and grown ups k. Let's see 5 things. What 5 things can see in your environment.

Mercedes Oromendia:

You know? And they and I like to choose a color usually because a kid keeps kids focused. So if their favorite color is blue, what 5 blue things can you see? And they'll go around. What 4 things can you hear? What 3 things can you smell? What 2 things can you taste? Or can you touch, and then one one thing can you taste? Mhmm. And that immediately brings you to the present, and it regulates you. Now that's what you might wanna do when they're not fully flipped yet?

Anouk:

That's what I was about to ask. Like, can you really do that if a child is Completely melting down, I believe.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Melting down at that point, you're triaging, and sometimes you just have to ride the wave. Right? And just let them cry it out. But you could say, hey. Sometimes I just need to cry it out. Mhmm. Do you want me to stay here with you while you calm down, you know, while you kinda get it out, or do you want some alone time? I can bring a glass of water. Drinking water is also really, really helpful to write. Yeah.

Mercedes Oromendia:

You can get it. Not always hap you know? But if they want some water, that's great.

Anouk:

Not always possible,

Mercedes Oromendia:

but when is that? Don't show it down there. But, yes, it's very helpful to drink water.

Anouk:

That that could have that could be dangerous, For sure.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Yes. And then the other one's humor. Humor is really helpful. Not laughing at them ever. Right. But laughing with them. Because then at one point, you might just have a moment where you can just step up. What? You could say, Oh my goodness.

Mercedes Oromendia:

All this, and we were fighting over, you know, dog who picked up you know? And then you could just maybe make a little who Who knew? You know, our chihuahuas has so much power over you know? Like, this is powerful poop. Whatever it is. Jokes for younger kids are so funny. Yes. But I need you know, something like just that moment of connection and humor together.

Anouk:

Mhmm.

Mercedes Oromendia:

And, again, it's not saying, hey. Everything that happened is okay. No. It's not, and we will address that. But it's we're still connected, And we're regulating right now together.

Anouk:

Mhmm. Yeah. And it like, it and as as you said, like, it's it's pointless anyway to try to address things when they're in a dead they won't listen. They won't remember. They're not gonna learn anything, and things will happen again. So it's it's just get getting them back to the regulating? And I like, the humor, and I I'm circling back to what you said. Like, it really depends on your kids. And Already, I can tell you 2 out of 3 would work.

Anouk:

The 3rd would not never work, like, for in my house. Like, it's Not at all. I would use with 1 of my 3 kids that it would never help. It wouldn't make things worse most likely.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Exactly. Right? And that's why I could never tell you exactly what to do. Because I don't know. You can work with me. Yeah.

Anouk:

And I I I like, it's one of the big thing I I try to, like, enforced, basically, to parents, like, you know best. And most often, like, there's so many professionals and so many Instagram accounts, and they tell people what they should be doing. And, like, at some point, parents just don't know anymore. So it's, like, Coming back. Totally. So coming back to yourself, coming back to your kids. That's where you're you're gonna find it, and you're gonna be able to Find the right solution. And so it's getting inspired by all those ideas and say like, oh, this this can not work in my house, but this is not gonna work.

Anouk:

But, also, sometimes trying things out that you think might not work could

Mercedes Oromendia:

work. Yeah. Exactly. And you and then you try it. You're that's why I think it's a scientist. You You know, when I work with families, with parent, like, you try this and report back. Let's figure it out. Like, what worked? When did it work? Why do you think it didn't work? Okay.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Well, could we tweak? Then let's do it again. And then I tell kids, hey. Worry. You know? You didn't when you were born, you didn't come with instructions, so your parents are actually figuring it out too. We're all together, and so we're gonna help your parents figure out some things. So you help me tell your parents too. Like, what can you know, when we figure out something that works, Let's tell them or something. It doesn't work, and we can tell them to stop doing this.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Right? Stop being trying to be funny when I'm upset. Mhmm. That makes me more angry.

Anouk:

Okay. Right. Like Yeah. Now I know. Like, I use detective, so it's basically the same

Mercedes Oromendia:

principle. Exactly. I think that's why it's really important, though, for me, and I think that's part of what the Instagram a lot of the Instagram accounts are missing is parents need to do some deep work themselves. Mhmm. They need and doesn't necessarily have to be therapy. Although I'm biased. I'm a psychologist. I've been in therapy forever myself.

Mercedes Oromendia:

I I love it. I'm also from Argentina where we have the highest, therapist per capita ratio. Oh, yeah. Everyone's in therapy. Even have a town like, an area of the city called VF Freund, because, like, it's there's so many therapists, and so that's It's very different.

Anouk:

The the real real name of the place, or it's just like

Mercedes Oromendia:

It's just informally called because there's It's not about, you know, do you see a psychologist? It's about who do you see.

Anouk:

That's still interesting because I think in so many culture is still shame. Like, if people don't wanna tell. Like, it's getting better, I think, in most places, but in lots of cultures, it's still something you just don't do. And in many cultures, it's still Not something you talk about. But I think it's changing slowly. But yeah. But when everybody is in trippy, maybe there's another problem? But

Mercedes Oromendia:

Yes. Exactly. And they're there before a very long time. That's also not great. Yeah. But what we see is so I'm the chief clinical officer Humanity. And what we're noticing more and more is that kid it's a pediatric mental health start up. Right.

Mercedes Oromendia:

And so what we're noticing more and more is that kids are the ones asking for help. Mhmm. And they're the ones that are telling their parents, hey. I found this app. I found this company that has their you know, therapists. Can can you please check it out? Like, that's saying something. So we're seeing the society changes. It's Changing with you know, usually, it changes the young kids.

Anouk:

Mhmm. So there's a switch that is coming slowly with more acceptance of therapy and counseling and you know?

Mercedes Oromendia:

And so we started only with kid providing child therapy, and we realized quickly, oh, no. No. We need to add parent therapy too. Right? And we do think we very much involve the parents. That's actually what makes us different because without parents and you per you just highlight That they're the problem. Right? And I will never I would never do it. To me, a child is not the problem. There might be something in the relationship, might be something in the family that we can tweak and support, But it's not that the child is bad.

Mercedes Oromendia:

No. And so it's more about investigating, like you're talking about before being a detective. And Mhmm. So we added parent therapy. Let's really in parent coaching and really support parents because we need to Yeah. Really help parents understand how were they raised. Right? So I love, think, helping parents understand how were they raised, what worked, what didn't, what comes up for them, What did they expect parenting was gonna be like? Order the

Anouk:

surprises. In general, it's not something like, you don't expect what you got as parent. It's very rare rare.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Yeah. It's like the kinder egg. You don't know what you're gonna get. You know? Like, you just. Yeah. Yeah. Well, then unpacking that too because I think it's really important that we talk about the difficult sides. Right? Many, many parents have moment Where they regret having kids?

Anouk:

I would say most most parents love those moments. Like, I in yeah. All parents that doesn't

Mercedes Oromendia:

And question. Right? And and question, like, I love my kid. I don't like my kid right now. That's okay too. Right? Being able to Say those things outwardly and not just, oh my god. Being a parent is incredible. And this no. Let's be real and talk about these things, and what comes up for you, and what happens when you realize you're talking just like your mom or your dad? And and what are those there's I I mean, we don't have time to dig into it too much, but there's something that I love using.

Mercedes Oromendia:

It's called the ghosts in the nursery. And then Then I don't know if you've heard of this. Nope. Then there's also so the ghost in the nursery, then the angels in the nursery is something that we use a lot with Your parent it's comes from chair child parent psychotherapy, CBP. But I use it with And all parents, actually. And it's the idea is when who can you call on from your background That helped you feel safe and seen. Mhmm. What were those moments? I'm really thinking, okay.

Mercedes Oromendia:

When I was playing the playground, I saw my grandma look at me and smile with pride. In that moment, I felt like she saw what I needed. And when I came, you know, in, she had the lemonade, just what I wanted, And, like, she just you know, those moments of connection.

Anouk:

You're like

Mercedes Oromendia:

Mhmm. How special I'm seeing I responded

Anouk:

to. Mhmm.

Mercedes Oromendia:

When you're struggling, how can you call on her? Right. So that would be the angel in the nursery for you

Anouk:

Mhmm. Or for me. It's just regalating, basically. It's a way to

Mercedes Oromendia:

is it? And just really taking it and helping yourself regulate. Mhmm. And then we also have the ghosts in the nursery. Right. Where are those moments? And they come up for us.

Anouk:

Mhmm.

Mercedes Oromendia:

We might say or do something that feels familiar and not familiar in a good way.

Anouk:

Mhmm.

Mercedes Oromendia:

And that's okay. And then how can we recognize it? Oh, yep. I felt this way. Now I'm okay. Mhmm. I see what I'm doing

Anouk:

here. Mhmm.

Mercedes Oromendia:

And then let's walk it back and take care of yourself. But really recognizing there aren't too many Instagram accounts about this. Right? Because it's even harder. It's deeper worked, but it really and then it doesn't the tools don't matter as much if you know that about yourself.

Anouk:

And it's, like, not the the quick tips, but the quick tips just don't stick? Like, it might work for 1 time, 2, 3 times, but they won't stick. Like, it's like counting down to 3 for kids to do things? Like, it works when they're little,

Mercedes Oromendia:

but it's good to work for long. Yeah. It's not not a

Anouk:

something you can really rely on.

Mercedes Oromendia:

No. And it's scary work. Right? Because then you have to sit maybe things you push back and you haven't wanted to think about. And so, Yeah. It's work. It's not just do a, b, and c, but I've seen it work time and time again, the parents I work it with because then you have the 2 the on all the knowledge, and you can handle a lot more whatever life throws at you because we don't know. Right? When they're teenagers, it'll be a different thing than when I'm seeing them, let's say, in their elementary school.

Anouk:

Definitely. And the the scientists or detective work never ends, because When we're trying, we found something that works, then they grow up and it doesn't work anymore. We have to find something else.

Mercedes Oromendia:

And by the way, parenting doesn't work. I have parent no. Sorry. Parenting doesn't end. No. It does work. It doesn't end. I have parents that come to me, and they're like, well, I only have 5 more years.

Mercedes Oromendia:

No.

Anouk:

You don't Are your kids gonna be dead in 5 years? Because other women just still have to be a parent.

Mercedes Oromendia:

You're a parent for life. The 18 is complete like, this is not But then I understand, like, oh, yeah. You're counting down the the month the years because this is really hard for

Anouk:

you. Super Super interesting. We talked on so many more things than planned. I love it. Thank you for being here. I have 2 last thing I will I love to ask. So the first is, do you have but you also already touched on the Dan Siegel one. But is there any other resources that you would like to share with the parents find helpful.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Yeah. Google the Dance Eagle on YouTube. They have some green just Yeah. Videos. And depending on the age of your child, you can Show it. I really love that one for the whole family to use. Right? So you could use it with your partner too. Like, when you're There's no point in

Anouk:

having argument.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Oh, see, I use it. There's no point. Right? And that's when I might say something in a way I regret, or I might say, Just let's just take a break. Mhmm.

Anouk:

That's when you you you will bat mount in laws in general.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Oh, yeah. Exactly. Say you never do this, and, like, I'm all I'm saying, well and then your point exactly. Or people's it just this is not the time. Mhmm. So I really like that one. The other one that is helpful is the boy I well, that I find helpful is the boy that was raised as a dog. This one, Arthur, is let me I'm pulling it up right now so I can remember.

Mercedes Oromendia:

So, yeah, so Bruce Perry, He is he was one of the first he was a psychiatrist in the eighties that recognized that what happens in infancy, so 0 to 3, actually does matter. Before we thought that because kids don't remember, it didn't matter. Mhmm. And so this book is chapters in their stories That really exemplified how what happened in early childhood will just changes what we need for our brain to regulate. And so how do you help your brain regulate? And it's not just for people that have more dramatic starts. It's for anyone. Like, what does your brain need, really? Why do we like to swing? Right. Kids love to why do I swing sometimes when I'm upset? Why do we love hammocks so much? Our brain is needing that.

Anouk:

Mhmm.

Mercedes Oromendia:

There's a lot of things that we need to regulate our brain when we think of flipping our lid that we can do. A lot of things we can do to just regulate our bodies before we

Anouk:

Yeah. Yeah. And I I love that you're you're you're new one, because there's lots of, like, when thing like, when kids are 3 or 5, then nothing else we can do, basically. Like, we if like, everything plays before before 3 or something like like like that. That goes around a lot, and I think that's an interesting nuance. Like, that's coming from? The fact that before we thought it had no impact. We know it had an impact, but it doesn't mean it's over

Mercedes Oromendia:

after that. Oh gosh. No. And neuroplasticity is real. Right? And so then our brains are continuously developing. And what we know and research shows is one positive relationship with an adult, Doesn't have to be your caregiver. Can have incredibly protective factors for lifelong factors. Right? And so The goal is how can we build as many protective relationships for our kids? And at times, we may be that.

Mercedes Oromendia:

At times, we make happy In recognizing that's okay, but we're right. Let's have this There's someone else. Yeah. Yeah. Or an aunt. That's why that extended family village is so crucial, and we're losing that.

Anouk:

So making

Mercedes Oromendia:

sure that we have those hard people in our kids' lives too and in our own life. Like, we're not you know, we need help too. Yeah.

Anouk:

So where can parents find you if they wanna work with you or more and more?

Mercedes Oromendia:

Yeah. So I my name is doctor Mercedes Oromendia, o r o m e n d I a. And you can find me at my website. So if you Google me, I'm on at my doctor Oromendia Doctormercizarreminded.com.

Anouk:

I also have just show notes for

Mercedes Oromendia:

sure. Yeah. And and just if you Google me thankfully, my name is that comment. So just you will find me. I'm also the chief clinical officer at Manatee where we provide therapy and parent coaching 2 kids and families. So we're live in 6 states in the United States. We're continuously growing, so you can also find me at get manatee.com. And we have a bunch of therapists and parent coaches that are all

Anouk:

A lot. I I saw the coaches. You have lots of people working

Mercedes Oromendia:

there. We do. Well, because we're in different states. And, really, our goal is to be able to decrease the wait time. There's such a need for support. Yeah. And parents oftentimes, Understandably so, but wait until things have escalated a lot. Yeah.

Mercedes Oromendia:

So my goal is let's get people help earlier. Now. Yeah. So so things don't get as Bad before they start getting

Anouk:

good. For sure. For sure. Thank you. So all the links will be in the show notes. I'll Google for for people here.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Perfect. I also have it on Instagram. So doctor Mercedes or Romani will find me on Instagram. So just yeah. Anything wherever you want to try to find

Anouk:

me. You're there. Excellent. So everything will be findable easily. Thank you so much for being here today. It was really nice talking to you.

Mercedes Oromendia:

Oh, this was so much fun. Thank you. I really appreciate it. And I love the questions, so thank you.

Anouk:

Thank you.

Anouk:

I'm so glad you joined me today and took that time out of your intense life to Focus on finding a new way to parent that works for you and your kids. To get the episodes as soon as they drop, make sure to subscribe to the podcast, And please left a rating and review so other parents can find it too. Also, check out all the free resources on my website at family moments dotca So you can take action on what's the most important for you right now. And take a deep breath. Keep going. We're all in this together.