016 – Decluttering for a calmer house – With Rebecca Jo Rushdy

Anouk:

Welcome to the podcast. Today we'll talk about the relation between decluttering and parenting and that goes way beyond just being more organized or having less stuff to deal with, which is already wonderful to begin with. Right? To talk with us about that today we have a guest, Rebecca Jo Rushdie. Rebecca was the first Platinum Khan Mary consultant in Malaysia and in Enderbor where she is actually based with her husband and two daughters. And if you don't know Kanmari or Mary Kondo, you'll do after today and I encourage you to learn more. Rebecca is an empath and highly sensitive person and draws on her lived experience to guide those who have similar life experience to declutter and transform their arts minds and ohms into sanctuaries that spark joy and flow to turn their wounds into wisdom and their exhaustion into energy. Does that sound good? This is wonderful. She has lived all over the world and support clients in many countries and virtually so.

Anouk:

You will be able to reach out to her wherever you are. If you want more and if you're like me, you will after this episode. Let's do it. Welcome to Parenting the Intensity, where we'll talk all about how we can drop the general parenting advice that doesn't work with our emotionally intense kids anyway and let go of the unrealistic expectations society puts on us as parents. Together we'll find solutions and ideas that work for you and your kids. Chances are, deep down you know what they need. But you need a little encouragement to keep going on harder days and permission to do things differently and help you fully trust that you already are a wonderful parent to your exceptional but challenging kids. You.

Anouk:

Hi, Rebecca, welcome to the podcast. I'm really glad I have you here. I'm kind of a bit excited because I never fan girl, but I'm a bit of a fangirl of my condos. I'm really glad you're training her method and we're going to talk about that because the subject today is something I really made a really big difference in my life when I cleaned things up. I did clean my house, but I cleaned everything. I cleaned the people, I cleaned what I was doing because I was overcommitting and things like that. But cleaning my house, like getting rid of so much stuff, made such a huge difference, but it's not something I'm trained in at all, so I don't necessarily talk about that. So I'm super glad to have you here today to talk about that.

Rebecca:

Thank you so much, Anna, for inviting me today. And I was absolutely delighted when I saw your bio and you referenced Marie Kondo and the Como and I was like, wow, what are the chances? Because I just signed on. Just wanted to talk about how parenting with intensity and especially with emotionally intense kids, like how hiding has such a profound impact on our family life, not only on yourself, but all those around us. So I'm really excited to geek out and delve deeper into how this can support families and individuals with sensory challenges as well.

Anouk:

Yeah. And I will have to have you explain what it is for the listeners who don't know. I feel everybody knows, but that's how you go when you know something. Well, I'm sure some people don't know. But first, I would love if you can just explain a bit of why you do what you do.

Rebecca:

Yeah. So the Komari method is a Japanese decluttering method that was founded by Amari Kondo over a decade ago. So I came across her book ten years ago, the translator version, which had sold over Gosh, like tens of millions of copies, been translated into over 40 languages as well. She also has a hit Netflix show. She actually has two shows. So a lot of people might have heard about the comari method through that as well. But the difference between her decluttering method is that it's infused with gratitude. So you might have seen some of the memes before, people saying like, why do I have to think I belonging before I let go? And that's actually where the magic happens.

Rebecca:

And literally, her book is called The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up, because it's not just our relationship with our stuff, but it transforms your relationship with yourself, and you gain that courage to say yes to the things that light you up and no to the things that don't serve you with gratitude. And then that's the full letting go, because we all know people where the person or the object might be long gone from our life, but we're still holding on to that resentment. So we're still holding on. So it's that true, letting go practice that this method of decluttering allows us be able to practice.

Anouk:

Yeah. And it doesn't just apply to stuff. And I want to stretch that because it's really true that I did the process at the same time of letting go of so many other things than stuff that makes no sense, but letting go of commitments that were not serving me, that I was just doing because I think I had to do and letting go of people that were toxic around me and things like that. And I think that's also very powerful. And it all came in the same process, basically. And I think that's a big part of our method that is very helpful.

Rebecca:

Absolutely. And that's actually something so I like to call that extreme Komari side effect. So it's very common hear people saying, like, oh, they got the word, they quit. Like, they go vegan, change their diet. And in our case, we actually moved countries. We decided to call Mari the city that we lived in.

Anouk:

Wow.

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Anouk:

That was an extreme side effect, for sure was.

Rebecca:

And because I didn't have that courage previously to face it, I just felt like, oh, this is the roadmap, this is just what I'm supposed to follow, it's what I know. But then after going through the method and then I think that was about a year later. So when you do the initial, that's actually called the Tiding Festival. So there's a lot of positive psychology infused in the method because Mari Kong, she calls it Tidying festival is a direct translation from Japanese, which is katachuke matzadi. So she wants you to look forward to know because most of the time people are like, oh my gosh, decluttering, they're filled with fear. Or they're like, that's the last thing that I want to do. But she literally wants us to change our perspective and see it as something that's joyful. And then letting go is a basic life skill that we simply aren't taught from our young age.

Rebecca:

If anything, we're actually taught reward. And this is also the more that I have delved into it, we can also give that compassion because our ancestors, the generations before us, they've gone through a lot of trauma. So for them, that safety came from having to hold on to things.

Anouk:

Yeah, and also there was lots of generation where they didn't add enough to eat, for example, a lot of the time they were much more like weather in lots of places was a big factor in will you have enough to eat during the winter or not, and things like that. So I think it was really normal to keep everything you add and there was little resource which was good and bad. And what we have today is another we're not going to dive into that in details.

Rebecca:

It's survival, right? But we recognize that's how our brain is constructed. So when we are actually going through the method in this really gentle, compassionate, it's filled with gratitude as well. So it actually helps us to retrain our brain. To help to rewire our brain to recognize that no, we are safe. I don't have to keep things out of fear. Like that just thing we all do that it's just normal, it's just part of being human. But then when we're able to actually take this mindful approach, we're not just throwing things flippantly, but we're actually reflecting on each and every item, whether it has a place in your life now or are we going to let go of it. Thank.

Rebecca:

It because of the lessons and the wisdom that it has imparted on you. So even things like one of the ones I like to share is up because let's say, for example, even fast fashion as well, because that's a big problem nowadays. It's just too easy to shop. But if we keep on just getting rid of those fast fashion items without a second thought about it, that's where the behavior it'll keep repeating. And I used to be a shopaholic. I had a really serious shopping addiction and I started shopping independently since I was eight years old.

Anouk:

Wow.

Rebecca:

Yeah. And I lived in a city where it's just like, basically a big shopping mall. I had that freedom because of my environment and then because I had access to funds. So it was this really bad combination. It was a very toxic combination. So then it became that maladaptive coping mechanism where I was trying to fill that void. But we all know that, okay, yes, you get that little dopamine hit from shopping, but we all know that's short lived, right?

Anouk:

Yeah. It lasts for a few seconds, maybe a few minutes if we're lucky, and.

Rebecca:

Then it's like we're on to the next thing. And then that's the negativity bias in our brain too. But through the Kilomeri Method, for me, I personally, I was like, oh, I'm able to reflect these things from the Fast Fashion store. I'm getting rid of it. But you actually have to sit and think about why you're letting it go and what you've learned from it. So everything is a blessing or a lesson. So when we start to reframe and look at it that way, then everything shifts. So let's say the Fast session, then I was able to be like, okay, you know what? I now know that I will rather buy quality versus quantity.

Rebecca:

So just having that reframe, I was able to actually just short circuit those shopping habits. And also when you have that full visual audit of everything that you own as well, you just save money. Just on a practical note, you don't have to have these extreme comar side effects. But just on a practical note, you can save money because you're not going to be falling for the repeat purchases. Right.

Anouk:

Because you forgot that you already have some of those things at home.

Rebecca:

Yes, and I see that so often when I work with private clients as well. There's literally things that they bought, they forgot they had got it, and then they buy it again.

Anouk:

I'm still guilty of it because it's been a while and yeah, I kind of need to go back to it, but I just want to rewind. And maybe because we kind of jump, we're too excited about the subject. But the reason why I brought you in is because before I did that method, I was completely overwhelmed, like, overwhelmed by stuff. I was tripping on toys and shoes and clothes in my house, and I'm not that much of a hoarder. And our else was okay, but we were at that point a family of four in a small apartment, and I was kind of stuck. I was not able to organize anything. There was too many things, and it was really weighing on me. And I just want to address that's why I was so excited to have you on, because I think it's a big part of our overwhelm.

Anouk:

We get overwhelmed with so many reason when we have intense children. It's one we could kind of get rid of and not be overwhelmed by stuff in our environment as much. It will be helpful for us as parents and for our kids. So I just want for us start back with that why it's so important.

Rebecca:

It's right, because a lot of people don't realize that simply looking at clutter will increase your cortisol levels. So we're triggered by sight and sound and I have audio sensitivity as well. So it was really challenging during the early years of parenthood. But also with sight, you're visually triggered. So then if your space is cluttered, then the moment that you open your eyes, then you're already going to be increasing your cortisol levels. And this impacts how you show up for yourself and for your family as well. So even that little drainage of energy, that will mean you'll be like, oh, I don't want to wake up. I'm going to just go back to bed, I'm going to not exercise, or whatever it is.

Rebecca:

I often say to a lot of times, people have all these good intentions of wanting to improve their well being. But I find that we actually have to start from the foundation. We have to start from the home. Because if your home is not supporting you, you're actually going against the current of trying to get better and become that best version of yourself because you're taking that one step forward, but like five steps back.

Anouk:

Yeah, I can definitely say that. For example, I was doing yoga and when I didn't add a space, I felt comfortable and relaxed in. I'm not doing it. And taking vitamins when I have to dig in my cluttered cupboard to find them, I'm not taking them.

Rebecca:

You can't find it. And I find that a lot with people. It's like you buy all of these supplements, but because there's no system in place, then it just gets shoved into cupboards and then it just becomes wasted money. Right. Because a lot of times these things actually go out of date as well.

Anouk:

Yeah, or just like not wanting to yell at your kids. But if you cannot find anything in the morning, you get super stressed out because you're looking for the shoes and for the backpack and for the lunchbox and for the coats and then for socks because there's just one. And then your stress level goes up and then you yell for sure, because you're completely overwhelmed by this situation.

Rebecca:

Exactly, and I can totally resonate with that because I'm actually single parenting right now because my husband is away for most of this month. And you just don't know what kind of challenges are going to come your way. You don't know how your kids are going to be feeling when they wake up and you have so much to deal with already. And then of course, there are some wobbly moments and wobbly mornings, but significant space is supporting us. So I'm like, okay, I can still focus on the things that will get us out the door and when we're trying to frantically look for things, that increases our cortisol level. And then, like you said, these ruptures.

Anouk:

Will happen with the children and we're not able to connect with them, we're not able to stay calm. We are dysregulated because we are going to be late. And then things just spiral because I don't know about your kids, but mine, they're not cooperating at all when I'm trying to go faster.

Rebecca:

Yeah, and that's also another thing, I think one of the things that when I work with parents, I'll say sometimes we have to look in the mirror. We have to actually design life in a way that's peaceful for every family member because it's stressful for kids to be rushed as well. So it might mean that we have to wake up earlier. Actually, that was one of my main switches that I did because I'm a night owl by design and I was sleeping so late in the early parenthood years because I was thinking, I had me time. But then I was like, kids still wake up early. Right? Like, that was unavoidable. And then when I started to reframe it, I was like, okay, I'm going to sleep earlier because I'm going to view that as an act of self care because sleep is so important. And that also delves into what we're talking about today.

Rebecca:

Because when your space, when your bedroom is not a sanctuary, it impacts your sleep. And that's also another foundation of how we show up for ourselves in the world. So if we're sleep deprived, then we're going to be more dysregulated. Right? There's all these components that all feed into each other.

Anouk:

Yeah, and I can definitely it's interesting, I've never really reflected on that, but it really was the start for me of getting back on my feet and not being as overwhelmed and as completely dysregulated as I was. Honestly, when I started, that was like a need for me to clean things. It started because we were trying for a third baby and I had two miscarriages in a row and I was like, okay, I'm done with all the baby clothes I'm keeping just in case, because clearly it's not going to work. So I'm getting rid of that and was the first step for me. And then it just kept like I read the book and I think it was on vacation. I could not because I was not home, I could not start. I was like, I cannot wait to get back home. And then I started with that and it just snowballed with, like I think it started with my own clothes, which is what she recommends.

Anouk:

And then it just snowballed to so many other things and it snowballed to everything else. And I was able to then put things in place I was never able to do before. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Rebecca:

That'S a really great segue into why the method is so different as well. Because we go by categories and not room by room. And so like you mentioned just now, you start with your clothing. So there are five categories in total. So we start from clothing first, and then we do book, and then it's paper, and then it's komodo, which means miscellaneous in Japanese, which is everything else under the sun from kitchen items, hobby items, seasonal items, you name it. And then the last one is sentimental item. And so why it's constructed and designed this way is because I like to give fitness analogy. So let's say you've never exercised before.

Rebecca:

You're not going to start with a high intensity workout.

Anouk:

No. Or if you know you're going to.

Rebecca:

Stop real fast, yeah, you're going to hurt yourself, right, or you're just going to give up. And so that's why we start with clothing, because it's really about helping us to reconnect with ourselves, our minds and body. Because clothing, only you can make the decision. You're the sole owner of it, and your skin is the largest organ as well. And I think especially for people who have sensory issues and living in such a noisy world, oftentimes other people's opinions matter more than our own. So it's that beautiful exercise to practice connecting back to your true voice. And then we just go through the categories. And on a practical note, why we do it by category is because not only do you get that full picture of everything that you own, the quantity.

Rebecca:

So let's say you're doing clothing, you need to get it from every single room, right? Books costco, because when you can see it all in one shop, it actually calms your brain so that you can actually make conscious decision.

Anouk:

Yeah. I don't consider myself someone who buys a lot of clothes, honestly, compared to a lot of people. And I was stunned by the amount of clothes I own. I don't remember if I had a king size or a queen size back then, but still I had a big bed and it was a mountain of clothes on my bed. Just my clothes. Okay, we have four seasons, so there was like coats and things like that taking up much space. But still there was a lot of things on that bed. And I was like, hey, I don't even have a closet.

Anouk:

That house didn't add any closets. So I was like, where were all those clothes?

Rebecca:

And you're not alone. And that's also why if people who's listening have watched her show before, you'll see that the famous mountain of clothing, and that's what you're describing as well. And again, it's because we are visually triggered as humans. So having that trigger means that we will be like, wow, I have too much, or wow, I have enough. That's usually what most people will say. But on the other hand, I also want to just point out because a lot of times people say I just simply don't have the time. So another way that I want to advocate to do it in a more for people who might have time constraints or people who really want to just dip their toes into it. So let's say like clothing, right? I'm just going to do my shoes today, I'm just going to do my t shirts today.

Anouk:

That's a good idea.

Rebecca:

Yeah, but you're still doing it by category.

Anouk:

I have to say there was kind of something satisfying to see that all big pile and be able to sort it all at once and yeah, it was not that long, I mean, I don't remember because it's been years but I don't think it took me more than 2 hours. I know for some people it's way too much in one go and I totally get it but it's not like when there's lots of miscellaneous items like the kitchen, for example, can take a lot of time because then you need to figure out where to put stuff like closet. It's pretty self explanatory. Like you put your clothes out, you choose what you keep and then you put those back and generally they have their place already in your closet.

Rebecca:

It's not that subsequent, that's why the first category right, but it's also different. I mean, generally speaking, clothing is the most the easiest but I have worked with people who are working on fashion and clothing is their sentimental. Yes, that's why I love this method because it's honoring our uniqueness.

Anouk:

It's not about minimalism either which I think lots of people confuse decluttering with minimalism and it's like no, you don't have to the goal is not to get you to minimalism and I think that was really well showed in her show, which is harder in a book. Of course there was an ouse when at the end it was clearly not a minimal ous by any means and that's not the goal at all. You keep the amount of clothes or things you want to keep basically.

Rebecca:

Yeah, and I find that ultimately it's about honesty, authenticity and emotionally readiness. Right. So I often say that you could be a maximalist and a komari but you just have to be honest. You're not just saying like oh, everything sparks people but no, you're really doing the conscious exercise of really asking yourself does this represent who I am now and who I'm becoming? It can be something that really brought you joy in the past but it might not really serve a purpose anymore and it's just being reflective about that as well. So I think the more we practice this as well because initially it might feel a little bit awkward because it's new, it only feels hard because it's new. But the more we practice it I've had clients who said to me they're like it's almost like having a date with myself.

Anouk:

Yeah, true. It's a moment when you just connect with yourself. And I think it's very good to learn how to listen to our own instinct also.

Rebecca:

Yeah. And that's one of the beauty of the method. You really do cultivate your intuition. You're able to really follow what your heart and your gut does as well.

Anouk:

Yeah. And with things that are easy, like following your gut, and I often talk about that with kids, like following your intuition. You're the one who knows best for your kids, but that's a hard one because there's so many social pressure on that. But it's easier to follow your gut, deciding if a dress fits you or not, and if it sparks your knot. Way easier for one piece of clothing than it is for which school we're going to send our kids to. It's a decision that has so much more impact. But when you start with little things, then it carries over.

Rebecca:

Yeah. And then you build that confidence. And this actually sets us up because when we practice this method with children, that's this beautiful opportunity to get to know them on a deeper level. And this is actually what helps us in our parenting journey as well. Because I only found out about being highly sensitive, like high sensitivities in the last year. And I'm like, when I read about it, it clicked. I was like, oh, this makes so much sense because I am a highly sensitive person. I'm an empath as well, so I feel things really deeply.

Rebecca:

So it just makes so much sense. Like a lot of the challenges that I had growing up and just feeling dysregulated, not knowing how to self soothe and regulate myself, I was leaning into all of the things that were maladaptive for me. And because my two daughters, who are nine and seven years old, they're both highly sensitive too, and they've been practicing the Kolmari method since they're two years old.

Anouk:

Wow.

Rebecca:

So they're kind of like guinea pigs. I wanted to first see if the method actually works for children. Right. But as the years have gone by, I realized that this is such a powerful tool, especially if you are parenting emotionally intense kids.

Anouk:

And that was definitely one of my question, because lots of people will ask, and I do have that in my house, but I know it's the reality for so many others. Lots of kids will keep every little piece of paper that they've touched or even seen, even if it's not theirs. And I know that in the method, you're not supposed to do it for others, but sometimes it's very hard when you know that most of the clutter is coming from your children.

Rebecca:

Yeah. And I think what we can do, especially with children as well, actually, it's not just children ultimately, it's all about creating emotional readiness and safety, like creating that safe space so that they're able to express themselves. And I often tell parents the hardest part about cold marring with kids is actually holding space for them because we're so quick to judge, right, to hold our tongue, to be like, oh, do you know how much money I spent on that? Or So and so gave that to you? Or Why do you want to keep that that's broken? And so, actually, the challenging part, especially when I was first starting this, was just to hold that space. And the more we practice it, the beauty of it is that they're able to express themselves without any fear. The more we practice this with them and also just recognizing that the impermanence of it, they might say that they want to keep this broken toy during this one session, but the more you joy check with them the next time, they might be like, oh, I'm ready to let it go. So we're actually teaching them how to let go. And so my younger daughter, she tends to like to keep things a lot more, but the more we practice with her, she's just a lot more easy to let go of things. And instead, now what I'm training my older daughter to do is hold space for her because she tends to judge her sister a lot.

Rebecca:

And I'm, like, don't have judgment. Right. Because when we don't create that safe space, that's when people will have those defense mechanisms come up. And it's the same regardless of age. And that's often why people have a very negative sentiment around decluttering, because they didn't have that safe experience.

Anouk:

Yeah, because parents in general, we will just throw out what we think the betrothed away. And then we as kids have been some of the ten we really were attached to, even if it's just a rock, because kids can get attached to anything, was thrown away by someone and it was like, disregard. And I think when you have children with highly sensitive or just more emotional children, they can get attached to some things more easily than other children and it really reflect on their emotional level, like their safety. And they're like I can definitely see that my youngest right now is doing that because she's having less control in her life in general. So I need to give her more control elsewhere so she can let go of the control and stuff. But it's something that I can see in her because it's my third and she's way younger than the other ones. And I did that process, but I would not have been able to say that of my older ones when they were that age, for sure. So knowing them definitely helpful.

Rebecca:

Yes. And also I want to point out to listeners that when we are actually decluttering, we don't start with the things we want to eliminate from our lives. So that's one of the key points we always start with what do you want to keep? Which one's your favorite item? Because when you. Start that way. It also creates that emotional safety within you. You have that sense of, oh, I have enough. I have five pairs of favorite jeans. So then when you look at the other pair of jeans, then you'll be like, okay, you know what, I have enough.

Rebecca:

It's not coming from the scarcity point of view. It's really coming from that fullness that I have more than enough. I'm really ready and willing to give. And these are the lessons that we can actually pass down to our children as well. Because for the children, we can get them involved in the exit plan, whether it be giving away to charity shops, whether it's donations to schools or whatever. Or sometimes you can resell as well. My kids are always asking me to post things up to sell. So it really helps them with the entrepreneurial side too.

Rebecca:

And then feeding it to show them that it's a self regulation tool. So always going back to how do you feel? And then you can also take before and after pictures. Yeah, so then we're visually triggered. That's why organizing content are so popular on social media. I don't really calming it, calms it, right? You're like, oh, you go from regulated to feeling regulated when you see those pictures. So I often advise people, I always forget to take pictures because I get too excited to go into it. But if you can, especially if you're working with family members, then to take that before and after so you can show them after. Because oftentimes we become so desensitized to our environment, you forget what it looks like.

Rebecca:

And then when you're able to be like, oh, how does that make you feel? Because it's not about pleasing the parents. They're not doing it to please you. That should never be the message. They are doing it for themselves. It's respecting their belongings as well. And they also get a sense of what's enough for them. They get to define this. So these are all the powerful lessons that homemade with our kids can bring about.

Rebecca:

And in the long run, the more we practice this, because they're going to be very articulate about why they're letting go of something. For example, my eldest daughter, she only wants to wear 100% cotton because she feels uncomfortable in other textile material. She's able to articulate. She's like, oh, you know what, this color isn't for me. And this is also how we get to bond with our children because it's one of the last remaining green free activities that we have. And we're using our hands too. That's not foundation. With the Tidying Festival, the joy checking after, it is just such a breeze.

Rebecca:

And it's really a joy. Like when we joy check our shoes, it literally takes her two minutes. Because the inflow of things is being controlled. You're not shopping in the same way as before. It's never going to get to that original state of overwhelm. When kids become older, this means that they will feel more open to share the bigger stuff in life with you because you're holding that safe space for them. Them letting go means that they're going to be able to say yes to the things that light them up. And then if they're in toxic relationships or jobs that don't serve them in the future, they're going to be able to let that go with confidence as well.

Anouk:

Yeah. Letting go is going to be applied to so many things in life. I know from experience, and I'm sure some of the listeners are thinking that too. When you have a child's room that is at the point where it's clearly dysregulating for them and they're just not able to let go of anything or just even start a process, would you suggest to just store things temporarily and help them take back things in their room? Or how do you suggest addressing when it's so bad that the kids cannot feel safe enough to be able to start the process? Like, how would you address something like that?

Rebecca:

That's a really interesting question because I'm sure a lot of people feel this way as well. I would say clothing is an easy place to start because they literally grow out of things. So there's kind of that like you just kind of get them started on it. And there's also another trend, it's called shushing a room, which I'm not sure if I'm completely on board with, but I do understand the principle behind it, which is they just corral the stuff, put it into a box and it's just basically resetting the room. And so that might be an interesting way as well. But the presorting when we're able to sort it by those categories and subcategories it makes it easier for them to be able to make the decision and we get them involved in the process. Right. Say, oh, can you grab all of your shoes together? Oh, can you grab all of your cars? And so they're involved in it too, because it's almost like we make it into a game.

Rebecca:

And kids actually love order. They love it. It's so easy. Let's say, for example, if we're going through stationery, you know, sometimes like with markers, you don't know if they're working. Then I'll just get the kids to get involved and fill a piece of paper, sit down and test out the ones that are working so we can get them involved in really gentle ways that doesn't have to feel overwhelming. And another key point is we never want to force them. So let's say that the child only has ten minutes of attention span for it. Then let's celebrate that.

Anouk:

Yeah. And that's lots of our children at any age that after like, I know my youngest is for five minute max. Like after five minutes she's done with something that requires some attention. Of course, doing the entire room at once would not be an option.

Rebecca:

And that's where we are able to control our expectations, right? We can manage our expectations. So when children only have ten minutes and sometimes we can do this as well, I'll just say like, oh, can I make the executive decision, can I make the decision for you? So we're still asking for the permission from them, but it's not that shock of like, oh, when things get thrown away, it gives them the agency and they're also part of the decision making process as well. So that's also another idea I want to throw out to parents who are listening to because sometimes my kids will be like, okay, they get bored of it and I'm like, okay, can I finish it off then? Can I make the decision? And then they'll be like, okay. And then that's it. That's just another way to keep that peace and harmony and soften any shock. Yeah, that's when you can be like, okay, I'm going to get rid of that thing that I've been wanting to get rid of for a long time.

Anouk:

For sure. And I think it also depends each children like for some children, taking all of the stuff in the room setting back to zero and then starting from there could be helpful. For some kids, that will be completely dysregulated, probably. I think we know our children and we know what will work best or if we don't, can test and we'll know fast.

Rebecca:

Exactly. And life is a laboratory, right? We just experiment and then we just test out to see what works. Because we're all unique individuals and that's really what this method is all about. We're celebrating our unique joy because what sparks joy for me might not spark joy for you and vice versa. And so this is where it creates that beautiful spaciousness to accept one another for who we are and how we are uniquely designed as well.

Anouk:

Yeah, I really love that. And it's so much larger than just storing things in boxes. Yes, it's the folding method, but that's not it. The folding is just one piece of the puzzle because I think that's what we see the most everywhere is like the spark joy and the folding.

Rebecca:

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, those are the hacks, right? Those are the tips on how we store things that can also play a huge part in our energy management. So like you mentioned, we can touch upon it because I'm sure for anyone, if you want to learn more about it, it's just very easy to do a quick Google or to watch the show. But even just the way that we store our clothing, because I know laundry will probably be a point of contention for a lot of families as well. Sure, yeah. So let's just talk about that because we can actually make laundry something really joyful. Because I often advocate that household chores shouldn't be all on the mother's shoulder, which is typically the case. I don't want to generalize, but it is.

Rebecca:

And so when we do this as a family, then we can actually make this into a shared responsibility as well because we will be less stressed from our environment. And then it's just easier to maintain because everyone is on board. Because you're actually training them, right? Like it's not going to be overnight.

Anouk:

No, but it's going to take time for sure.

Rebecca:

Yeah, the more we practice, then it's like everyone's on board. It's actually so funny because now my husband kind of fighting to fold the laundry because it's like a self regulation school for him. I'm like, no, I want to fold it with the kids. We just decided to pop on a show and we're all folding together. So me and the two kids were folding together and I brought some snacks as well. So we just made it into something that fun and enjoyable. So we always have that power to be able to create the create the experience.

Anouk:

Yeah, it's basically becoming a fun family activity to fold laundry. And I think that can be totally applied to the bedroom also, like bring snacks and especially if you never bring snacks in bedroom. I think that's even more like it's going to be a party if you can snacks while you clean the bedroom.

Rebecca:

Popcorn, whatever it is. But that's also another thing to highlight too, because if you have kids who are emotionally intense and also for me too, I get hangry. So check with yourself and always start when you're not feeling stressed. It's like you feel light and joyful. You're well fed and watered. You don't have anything that you have to rush to do. So these are the parameters that we can actually that are within our control to make this into something that's really enjoyable for the whole family.

Anouk:

Yeah, I love that because I definitely still see chores as something not fun, something that I need to do and I try, I put on podcasts so it's not as boring and I love the idea of doing at least some of them as I can totally relate. I fold laundry on my own with podcasts. For me, it's kind of a self care thing. It takes too much time to get to it. But yeah, that part like rest of it I don't enjoy, but the folding I do. And I still fold most of the clothes in the KonMari Method since then.

Rebecca:

For listeners who don't know what the KonMari Method folding is, instead of stacking up from top to bottom, we actually stack it while holding so they're all.

Anouk:

Standing up so you can see them in a drawer. So in a drawer it's especially useful because you open the drawer and you see everything that you have. It's so faster to chew. It's a small change, but it makes a huge difference in how fast we can get dressed. And for example, my older daughter closet don't allow for that right now. And so it's her ardor for sure for her to find clothes. And it gets fairly messy, so we kind of need to reorganize it so that she can find more easily.

Rebecca:

Yeah, it makes a huge difference, actually my closet right now because I'm in a rental, so it's quite deep, so it doesn't have drawers. So what I did was I actually got these fabric boxes from Ikea. It's just and so that kind of accidentally drawers, sometimes we just have to find these little temporary solutions. It's not my favorite solution, but it works. So that's also where even shaving off those seconds off of your day, every day, it adds up. It's like that small change. But it can add up because, especially for children, if they're trying to find something and then they have to either they're getting something to the top of the pile, or if they grab something from the bottom, that whole pile will turn over and it'll create more mess. So when we are doing it, the file folding method, what happens is that you pluck out that one T shirt and everything is still in order.

Rebecca:

And the same goes for the reverse. You're putting laundry back. All you have to do is pop it back into that empty slot and it's so much easier to maintain. So it's a lot of practical points as well.

Anouk:

Yeah, definitely. So this is a lot of practical things, and I know it can feel overwhelming just to think about doing that for so many people, but I so much encourage you to do it. I can definitely vouch for the fact that it did change a lot for me. It really was the starting point for me feeling much more regulated and much better as a parent and much more calmer and patient. So it is much more than just touring things. It's not it it's much more powerful than that.

Rebecca:

It's life changing.

Anouk:

Yes. Do you have anything to add before we wrap up?

Rebecca:

No, I don't think I have anything at the moment. But for resources that I might want to share with the community, for any listeners out there who identify as being highly sensitive, or if you're curious to know more about what it means to be an HSB, or if you suspect you have a highly sensitive child, you can check out Dr. Elaine Aaron's pioneer work. So she's been doing the study for over 30 years already. So her website is Hsperson.com. And there's a test on her website as well. Highly Sensitive Refuge is another wonderful website with just wonderful articles. There's also a book that they've written.

Rebecca:

It's called sensitive. So it's not just when we're able to understand the neuroscience behind it, it's also that creates that beautiful acceptance that we're just wired differently. And let me think another resource. Oh, yeah. So for people who are struggling with how to parent highly sensitive children, or if you're a highly sensitive parent yourself, you can check out highlysensitiveparenthood.com. So yeah, I just want people to know that you're not alone. There's so many beautiful resources and support out there. So the more we delve into understanding ourselves, it just makes it easier to show up needs of wholeness, not only for yourself, but for your family and the world around you.

Anouk:

Definitely. Yeah. The understanding ourselves and understanding our children is so key in being able to parent in the way that works for everybody, basically. So thank you for sharing those resource. And if people want to know more or work with you in some way, how can they reach you?

Rebecca:

You can reach me there on my website, Sparkjoyandflow.com. I also do coaching as well so I can work with anyone around the world. I'm also on Insight timer. Meditation has also been a really big part of my life in addition to the Komari. So I'm doing live talks on insighttimer.com Sparkjoyandflow about once or twice a week. I'm doing Live Talks there because it feels like a safe space for me because social media actually overwhelms me.

Anouk:

I get that. We'll put the links, like all those links in the show notes for sure. And of course, the books like the Mary Scandal's books will be linked there too if you want to check them out. And as always, if there's anything today that sparked a little something in you, like resonated in some way, I encourage you to go and reach out to Rebecca because we know what we need and when something just resonates, it's just follow that little instinct of yours because it's worth it. So thank you so much to be here.

Rebecca:

Oh, the conversation sparked so much joy. Thank you so much.

Anouk:

Me too. It was very fun.

Rebecca:

Take care.

Anouk:

I hope it's not too geeky for those of the listeners who don't necessarily know the method yet, but you need to go check. The Netflix series are free and the books are not really pricey. You definitely need to check them out.

Rebecca:

Definitely. So many different ways of learning, whether through the book or YouTube videos, even the Netflix shows as well. So there's many paths.

Anouk:

Definitely. It's really worth it. So thank you so much to her being here.

Rebecca:

Thank you.

Anouk:

I'm so glad you joined me today and took that time out of your intense life to focus on finding a new way to parent that works for you and your kids to get the episodes as soon as they drop, make sure to subscribe to the podcast and please left a rating and review so other parents can find it too. Also check out all the free resources on my website at familymoments. CA so you can take action on what's the most important for you right now. And take a deep breath. Keep going. We're all in this together.