031- Avoiding Conflict & Power Struggles with Our Emotionally Intense Kids with Afsaneh Moradian

Anouk:
Welcome to the podcast. Today, we're talking about how to avoid conflict and power struggle with our emotionally intent kids. I'm sure this will resonate to a lot of you. To do so, we're receiving a guest, Afsaneh Moradian. She's an homeschooling coach and author of a picture book for kids that has been, sold in 10,000 copies internationally and is in many, many classrooms. As a homeschooling coach, she guides adults by giving them the language to communicate effectively with their children, empowering them to create learning spaces that are safe and inclusive so children can thrive. She's a doctoral candidate in education and has a master's in education. As an educator and curriculum writer for over 20 years, she has worked with hundreds of students from preschool to graduate level.

Anouk:
She also has led various teacher training workshops and has appeared in many, many places and is the host of the Neurodiversity Homeschooling Summit. She enjoys homeschooling her unique child and drinking iced matcha lattes. Let's dive in. Welcome to Parenting the Intensity, where we'll talk all about how we can drop the general parenting advice that doesn't work with our emotionally intense kids anyway and let go of the unrealistic expectations society puts on us as parents. Together, we'll find solution and ideas that work for you and your kids. Chances are, deep down, you know what they need. But you need a little encouragement to keep going on other days and permission to do things differently and help you fully trust that you already are a wonderful parent to your exceptional but challenging kids. Do you read all the things, listen to all the things, take all the courses, and you know all of things about parenting, but you struggle to actually We apply them in your real life, then you're in luck.

Anouk:
I just started the Parenting the Intensity community, which is a, monthly group support for parents of emotionally intense kids. And the goal is exactly that, To take all the information you learn from the podcast and from all the other sources and adapt them so that It work for your child and your family, your reality, because things can work, but not always the same way for everybody. So the same thing might need to be adapted to work for you. And sometimes it's it's hard to sort through everything to choose the right things that so that you can really enjoy your life and your kids, not always being afraid of the next outburst. You can join by clicking on the link, in the show notes are on the website. So welcome, over on a podcast. I'm really glad to have you here because we'll talk about things that I'm asked a lot about, so I'm really glad to have you over.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Thank you so much for having me.

Anouk:
So first, can you start by telling a little about yourself and why you do what you do?

Afsaneh Moradian:
Sure. My name is Afsaneh Mouradian. I'm the founder of MLC Homeschool Coaching, and I'm a children's author. And, I got into both homeschooling, homeschool coaching well, all free and being a children's author because of my child. I have a very unique child who needed all sorts of things that they couldn't get from preschool, that they couldn't find in the picture books that we had available, and I've just basically motherhood for me has really been about creating spaces and media and learning experiences and, you know, just trying to figure out how to give my own child really what they need and, You know, how to help them thrive in their life. So that sort of altered the course of what I was doing. I mean, I did I am a long time educator, but certainly, did not have a plan to be a picture book author and a homeschooling coach. So

Anouk:
Yeah. I think that's pretty rare that we start Our life has a 4 year old dreaming that. So, yeah, the the most of what we're we Plan on talking about, and we often branch out, but is how to avoid the power struggle with our emotionally intense kids. And I think that's a problem that all parents run into. But when you have an emotionally emotionally intense children, I don't I have some problem speaking today. When you have emotionally intense kids, it's even worse, and it's, like, all the time. And it's very hard to avoid. So I'm really glad that you're here to help us with that today.

Anouk:
So

Afsaneh Moradian:
Yeah.

Anouk:
What what what will you do? Like, I think we all start any discussion, any we ask something to our child, and Really often, it will spiral really fast. How could we avoid that?

Afsaneh Moradian:
So there's there's 2 parts of it. Right? 1 is the communication piece. You know, when your child says no, How do you respond? But if I just start with, like, the script and the words you can say, I think that kind of misses It kind of misses it a little bit because I think the real starting point is how are you feeling? Are you tired? Are you hungry? Are you, you know, are you do you have your needs met during the day? Are you set up to be able to calmly enter, you know, this kinda tough conversation with your child. Because I think it's really I think it's really asking For too much, if, you know, we are tired, we're hungry, we are so frustrated, we you know, All of that is going on. So, you know, that's a a really basic thing with kids too. If someone is hungry or really tired, it's really hard to be your best. So I think, You know, you can always start with with that. How are you feeling? And then the other thing that you really need to be very aware of is How do you feel and what do you think when your child says no? Because at this point, if you're dealing with power struggles a lot, You absolutely have a narrative going on.

Afsaneh Moradian:
My child doesn't respect me. My child doesn't listen to me. My child is, trying to manipulate me. My child is testing me. My child is testing my boundaries or testing the limits. So there's definitely something that you think when your child says no, and then you're going to respond Based on what you think about what they're saying. And Yeah. That is a really important thing to be aware of because It's like we write these narratives.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Right? Like and we do this in all of our relationships. So, you know, my husband went through a really tough time with our child. My child is very difficult. If you say, please get your shoes on, that's not happening. Get your shoes on. It's time it's not happening. Like, Like, it is not like, I see some parents say, go get your shoes on, and the kids go get their shoes on. It's like, how how is that possible?

Anouk:
I know. And I just I wanna pause there because I think that's the experience of so many listeners. Like, Yes. Some kids do that on the 1st ask, but not ours. Let's be honest. Like, most of them don't do that. And for many reasons, like, Different children might have different reasons not to comply when we ask of, I think, everybody listening right now.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Right. Right. So then and then how do you feel? How does that make you feel? So that's really important. So, you know, When my child was younger and my husband wasn't so used to dealing with a very intense independent thinking child And, you know, go get your shoes on. No. Or later. Yeah. Yeah.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Later. Right? And then it, like, doesn't happen until there's A big power struggle going on. And he would just feel so rejected, and he would say, you know, they don't want me. They don't want me to be their parent. They don't want to listen to me. They don't want me. Mhmm. So whenever my child didn't comply, He felt rejected, and then he had this whole narrative, this whole story written in his head about how the that his child Was rejecting him, and then he would just feel bad about himself.

Afsaneh Moradian:
And what's really going on though this This is why it's so important to become aware of how you're thinking because the real story is so different. What your child is experiencing has nothing to do with you. Now Children are the centers of their own universes. They are not thinking about you. They are thinking about The thing that they need to do before they're in a space to put their shoes on. So you say put your shoes on because you know that it's the time Now is the time to leave. Mhmm. But for them, oh, but they really just need to finish building that LEGO house or they, you know, need to find The socks that they wanna wear today or the shoes that they want because the ones that you chose to the shirt a little bit or Yeah.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Yeah. Like, They they have very good reasons for not being ready yet. So if you if you just, you know, have your feelings about it and your narrative about it and you sit in that and then they do that and all it does is, like, is Is poke your emotions. Right? Like, you're already not feeling great about the situation and then they they do that and then that's it. Oh my god. Again. Again, they're testing the limits. Again, they're, you know, not listening.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Right?

Anouk:
Those feeling that we have, I think they're coming a lot from Parenting culture. Like, that's what we hear all the time. Your child is listening. He's he's testing your limit. Your child's not listening. Right. Is manipulative and, like, things like that. And that's things that we hear all the time.

Anouk:
We see that on social media all, like, All over social media and people around us is are telling us that parent training are telling us that it's a message that is So ingrained in ourselves from that parenting culture, it becomes our inner In our dialogue, basically.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Yeah. And it's it's very us versus them, and it's very, like, we're the authority and they have Do what we say, and if they're not, then there's a problem. And it's you know, kids don't really appreciate That. You didn't appreciate that when you were a kid. I didn't. You know, nobody wants to be yelled at. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good to do the yelling.

Afsaneh Moradian:
None of it feels good. So If you if you first, like, really figure out what's going on with you like I said, are you really tired? If you're really tired, you're gonna have a very short fuse. And it's okay. It's okay because then you can always apologize or you can say, you know what? I'm really tired right now. I just need you To get your shoes on. But I have to tell you, if you have a neurodivergent child, it doesn't matter what you need. They're not gonna be able to do what you're asking them to do do until they are able to. And so the the path of least resistance, the fastest way like, people don't believe me.

Afsaneh Moradian:
The fastest way to get out of the house is to ask you know, if they say, oh, not yet or not now. Say, how can I help you? Why not? Actually, like, finding out what's going on with them, maybe the shoelace has a knot in it and they can't undo it. And so there's gonna be a whole power struggle, But they can't take the knot out of the shoelace to do it, which is just it just gets very upsetting for everybody. Yeah. So finding out What is stopping them from being able to do what you're asking and then seeing if you can help or what you can do to support them Getting through that to get their shoes on

Anouk:
and get out

Afsaneh Moradian:
of the house is so much faster than a power struggle. It's just it's so much faster. It takes a lot of patience.

Anouk:
Does feel

Afsaneh Moradian:
much better. It takes a lot of patience. It takes a lot of patience to do it. It takes a lot of patience to say, okay. I'm feeling the way that I'm feeling, but that has nothing to do with what my child is feeling. Like, my child is having their own experience. And we know we know this. You know? People talk about if you think about, like, you know, if You have a conflict with your partner or with a best friend.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Everyone has experienced that conversation completely differently. Yeah. And that's what's going on when there's a power Your child is having their own experience, their own stuff. So can you imagine? You know? There's a whole power struggle going on. And From the kid's point of view, like, I had a knot in my shoelace, and I couldn't take it out. And I you know, my mom just started yelling at me to get my shoes on, and I Couldn't do it. It's like, what what's the kid supposed to do? So, you know, we're not bad people. Like I said, it really starts So, like, how are you feeling? Because if you're tired, if you're overwhelmed, if you're stressed, if you're frustrated in general, And then your child's you know, them not complying is more than you're able to handle.

Afsaneh Moradian:
And I've absolutely had those moments where it's like, I don't I don't have the capacity to deal with whatever needs to happen for me to help my kid get their shoes on. And that's the those days where it's like, you know what? We have to leave. You can you know, I'll put your shoes in the car. You can get them on later. You know, like

Anouk:
Letting go.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Or even I've said, you know yeah. I've even said, like, if you really don't wanna wear shoes, do you wanna, like, go out in the world and why humans invented shoes to protect their feet? Like, do you wanna have that experience yourself? Because if if you need to, that's okay with me. You know? So but, usually, there's something else going on, something that they need to finish or they need to do first or you know? So it's It goes a lot faster. It's a lot easier to just kind of have a give a show of respect. Like, oh, why not? Well, we need to go You know, it always helps if you're not late. Yes. It helps to try to get ready to leave, you know, maybe 15 minutes early, so maybe you're 5 minutes late, you know, like, Yeah. Giving that extra time.

Afsaneh Moradian:
And it's just really hard. We're not robots. Our kids aren't robots. It's really hard. But if you can kind of remember that they're having their own experience too

Anouk:
Mhmm.

Afsaneh Moradian:
And try to find out what's going on with them, then you don't need to get into the power struggles and Things can go a lot faster, a

Anouk:
lot easier. Worlds of of difference when you are Taking the time, but that means you need to be able to take the time. That's the hard part, I think.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Right. Right.

Anouk:
Because often we don't we we there's other things coming up that we'll Take our time. And I can say, like, with 3 kids, there's always something going on. And when one's ready, the other one's not ready. And then You're waiting for 1, and then the other one started something else while we were waiting. So it's it's always exciting. Right.

Afsaneh Moradian:
But that that moment when you When you walk to the car and you realize no one's behind you, what happened?

Anouk:
Where did I lose them all? We were all in the entryway a 2nd ago.

Afsaneh Moradian:
And just you know? And then you so I I always say, like, I wanna be the last one going down the stair. You know? I wanna be the last one headed to the car. Like, You know, because it's it's at those moments, but they're not you know, our kids are not doing anything against us. They honestly are not thinking about us at Oh, which becomes a problem. It's like, I'm so tired. Could you just think about me right now? Like, I'm sick. Could you just help me out? Like, but they just They're kids. Developmentally, they don't think about us.

Afsaneh Moradian:
It's not their job. They are thinking about, like, oh, I need my notebook. Oh, where's that Where's that eraser that I haven't seen in 3 years that I really wanna have now for the car ride? You know? Like, that's That's what's going on in their heads. Right? So it just if you have that information, it's easier for you to become a little You know, I I'm not saying impatient because it's annoying. You're trying to leave and they need to find an eraser that they haven't used or cared about. Right? But at least you know they're looking for Anouk eraser. And if you know where it is and you can get it Yeah. Things that then they can get in the car.

Afsaneh Moradian:
So that's really, like, what is what are the obstacles? If you remove the obstacles, then they can do what you're asking. So that's another way of looking at it rather than, like, a us versus them. And, you know, neurodivergent kids do not respond well to arbitrary Orders. You know? If it seems arbitrary, then it's like you're you're just deciding they have to do something. There's no meaning. There's no Reason. There's no real purpose, and it's it's going to be very difficult for them to do it. So, I mean, we very tired as adults.

Anouk:
Yeah. And I think it's interesting because oftentimes, what doesn't work at all for neurodivergent kids Can work for neurotypical kids, but what works for neurodivergent kids also works with neurotypical kids. Like, It's just that they need it more, and it's just a no choice when you have a neurodivergent child. But when Everything that you use can also work for neurotypical. It's just that they're more compliant in general. And but and also there's other things that are not necessarily neurodivergence that can also impact the kids in the same way. Like trauma, for example, will impact The kids in a similar way than neurodivergence, or anxiety will also impact them in the same way.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Sure.

Anouk:
So there's a lot of Things that might like, everything that we you suggested applies to so many children that they'd be neurodivergent or not. Just being more intense makes a lot of those kids need a different approach. And I think using that as exploring, and I often say Play detective, found what's going on Intense of just going forward. If you find what's going on, you're gonna and that's a very great example and very great way and very practical way to do it in a day to day when you have a power struggle. And, also, I really love what you said about Your own energy and your own like, can you do it? And if you cannot do it, just let go of it. Not even start the struggle.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Right. Because a a power struggle, really, it's about it's about power. And our kids you know, I I work with a lot of adults To say, like, it's not fair. My kid has all the power.

Anouk:
Mhmm.

Afsaneh Moradian:
But their children, they actually don't have any power. You have all of the power as the adult. Mhmm. You can't get them to do something that they don't want to do, but that doesn't actually give them power because you can take away their Screen. You can take away all of their fun. It's not they're not empowered being yelled at by their parent Or, you know, if it if it gets a little physical. Right? If you lose control and it gets physical, that's not empowering to them. That's actually the opposite.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Mhmm. So it's really tough to remember in those moments because our kids, they really dig their heels in. They say no, and they mean it. Mhmm. And then, you know, are you gonna get them to comply with some kind of force via, you know, your words or Taking away you know, threatening threatening to take away their phone or whatever Mhmm. Or even physical force or Not. So, you know, the real the the essence of a power struggle, it's really it's that. It's force Mhmm.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Which is the opposite of, You know, open communication. Yeah. What's going on with you? Why not? Why can't you? And like I like I said, it really matters How you're set up to go into those situations because it is a lot more work to stay calm. It is it requires saying Hundreds, if not not thousands of words. We're gonna do this today, and here's why, and here's what you're gonna need to do. And That, you know, you have to explain everything. You have to Yeah. Give the reason.

Afsaneh Moradian:
You have to you know, it it's a lot more work, but It feels a lot better, and it it means a lot for the connection that you have with them because it it's like getting your child to do something, begrudgingly, out of fear Godbout of sadness or out of, you know, not wanting to lose something is very different than doing it because they know that this is something they need to do. Mhmm. Those are those are very different ways of behaving.

Anouk:
Want to do it at some point even if it's Now because now they have something else to do, but they do want and most children wants to please us, but don't necessarily Wanna do it right now when on our time schedule, basically.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Right. Exactly. Exactly. So that's That's really what it what it comes down to. And then, you know, there's, like, longer term implications. Right? Like, do we brush our teeth because our parents yelled at us to brush our teeth. They'd already brush our teeth because we don't want cavities.

Anouk:
Mhmm. You

Afsaneh Moradian:
know? I turned the lights off, You know, automatically, because I got yelled at, that was something that made my mom so upset if the lights were left on. So it's like, You know, like, almost like a trauma response. Like, turn the light off and but, like, wouldn't it be better if I turn the lights off to save energy because Tricity bill. You know? So Mhmm. Mhmm. I mean, maybe for some for some adults, it doesn't matter as long as the lights are turned off. Right? But I think I think it does matter because these these turn into life skills and how we approach taking care of ourselves as adults. Mhmm.

Afsaneh Moradian:
And it really needs to be out of self love And out of the knowledge of why and how rather than, you know, that sort of fear that gets left over, you know, ingrained

Anouk:
in us. Need to do it. It's the same as, like Yeah. Does people follow, like, the lim the like, the speed limit on the road because they're afraid of Police or because it's dangerous? Like Right. If if you do it because of the police, you're always gonna be dangerous on the world. If you do it because you know it's not safe, Then you're gonna respect the limits, be it a police officer or not. Yeah.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Right. So

Anouk:
that's basically the same thing, but apply to parenthood. Like, If when the day when your children are not like, when I know I I have 2 teens. At some point, like, I cannot make sure they brush their teeth and wash their hands when they go to the bathroom So each time they do. So, like, if they haven't integrated that as a life skill for themselves, I cannot control it to some extent. Like, we lose that control completely on our children at some point, for sure. And do you have any, like, suggestion for parents to Stay regulated and stay calm when it's very hard to do so.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Well, I do I do think it matters to look at, You know, how you're feeling and how you're set how you're setting yourself up, which somewhat is in your control and somewhat not. And sometimes there's structural changes that need to be made, Adjustments to bedtimes or, you know, making sure you get some quiet time to recharge or, you know, really looking at what is missing that you need. I think staying calm really helps when you when you remind yourself over and over and over again, this is not about you. All of the feelings, the emotions that come into your head, you have to really push them aside and be able to just focus on You know, this is a child in distress. This is a child going into crisis. This is a child that has something real happening with them. Mhmm. And so it's really that's that I think is the hardest part that you have to really remind yourself of that and stay very focused on them, not you, To find out what they need and be able to, you know even in the midst of a conflict, to be able to just give them a hug.

Afsaneh Moradian:
To just really see this child is very is upset right now. This child is not okay right now. And you as an adult, you're okay. You're okay. You've made it this far. You have a family. You have, you know, your life. You're you're okay.

Afsaneh Moradian:
This kid is not okay. This is a child. This child, as angry as you are with them and As justified as you are to be angry, they need a hug. They need love. They need your support. You're their parent. You know? You're the most important in their life. So I think if you really just can kinda, you know, Understand how you're feeling.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Those are just feelings. Those are just thoughts. It's not necessarily the the real situation happening, And just focus on them. And, you know, I mean, my husband has to take a lot of deep breaths. It is very hard for him To be in those situations and stay calm is very hard. So, you know, maybe you need to take deep breaths. Maybe you need to walk away for A minute and, you know, say, you know what? Like, I don't think it's good for us to have this conversation. Let's Mhmm.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Well, we'll talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. Like, why don't you do that? I'm gonna go to Myra. I'm gonna you know, give yourself a time out. Mhmm. The kid will get the biggest kick out of it. You know what? I am not I am not able to do this right now.

Afsaneh Moradian:
I'm going to put myself in time out, and I will see you in, you know, 3 minutes. You know? And maybe you need to call a friend. Maybe you need to, You know? Send me a message. Maybe you need to just, you know, listen to some music or just, you know, whatever you whatever works for you.

Anouk:
Yeah. Anything that helps ourselves calm down for for that moment. It can be like yeah. Anything that works. That's important. That's the important part.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Right. So, unfortunately, our intense kids didn't come from you know? They didn't they didn't come from the air. Right? We we probably are intense too. So, you know, we, like, we are adding to the intensity of the situation. Whether or not we know we are, whether or not we want 2, we are making it you know, you can't have a power struggle without another person. It's just not if 1 person refuses to engage in the power struggle, there's no power struggle.

Anouk:
Definitely.

Afsaneh Moradian:
So

Anouk:
And I can definitely vouch for the fact that I I had lots of power struggle, especially with my older one for for years. And that The power struggle didn't stop because he grew up. The power struggle stopped because I changed the way I was dealing with this power power struggle, then I stopped engaging in them.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Right.

Anouk:
And they disappeared. I could guess that.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Right. Right. And so there's, like, there's always a need. You know? Sometimes kids Will will poke us to get that kind of reaction because maybe they need attention. Maybe they haven't spent that much time with us today. Maybe you know? Mhmm. When I need to work, my child becomes the neediest human being possible. I mean, it

Anouk:
is, like,

Afsaneh Moradian:
Unbearable. It's like, I I need to take 8 minutes to write an email. Yeah. Yes. Whether the phones, you suddenly need where it's like you know?

Anouk:
Yeah. When we're going down the on the phones, kids totally needs everything in the world right now. Right. For some reason

Afsaneh Moradian:
So that's where That's where it's like, okay. What's the what's the bigger picture going on? What does the rest of the day look like? Why you know, what is the need? Need what kind of conversation, and it seems so, like, intense and unbearable at times, but, really, words are so powerful. And you really can use communication to change the dynamic completely and change the the connection also. So it's really It's it's pretty amazing. It's just it's hard. It's hard to know what to say and how to say it and all of that, and that's why

Anouk:
Yeah.

Afsaneh Moradian:
That's why there are coaches. That's why there are there are professionals to help You're right.

Anouk:
Definitely. Is that right? And, speaking of which, you do homeschool coaching. And I think that when we have Emotionally intense kids or kids with special needs of any sorts. And probably even more real, like, Now that after the pandemic where everybody basically experienced homeschooling to some extent, it became an option for more people. And sometimes the decision to homeschool is very hard to do to take. And so if someone listening is on the fence and wondering if homeschooling is the right choice. Why what would you say are the positive or negative aspects of homeschooling emotionally intense kids?

Afsaneh Moradian:
Yeah. So first, I wanna say I am not a homeschooling. I don't think it's for everyone. So if your child is doing well at school, leave them in school. You don't have to homeschool because I know it seems very exciting, and everyone's doing it. But, really, if your if your kid's good at school, It's fine. Okay. So that's the first thing I wanna say.

Afsaneh Moradian:
If they're not If school is not working for them and you have the ability, the the time you know, if you work from home or if you can be home, If you have the ability to do it, homeschooling is this incredible opportunity where it's not schooling at Home. You're not reproducing the classroom at home. I think that's a very common misconception. It is this incredible opportunity to create A customized learning experience that takes into account your child's anxieties, learning Needs, passions, interests, all, you know, all of that to create a completely unique learning experience Where they can really learn, really love all those skills that were taught at school, They can actually love doing that stuff, not, you know, sit down and do math problems. Here's a work here's a math worksheet. Some kids like math worksheets. For some kids, it's torture. Right.

Anouk:
Yeah.

Afsaneh Moradian:
So really figuring out what the best experience is for them. You just you have the ability to create the type of Educational experience that costs, like, $60,000 a year at the top private schools in New York City. Like, you have this ability to give This incredibly intellectually challenging, expressive, creative, critical thinking, independent thinking, Learning experience, that is really hard to get in a mainstream school these days.

Anouk:
Yeah.

Afsaneh Moradian:
And it's the kind of thing that leads to so many Opportunities and possibilities for the future. So I think that that is really the beauty and the amazing aspect of homeschooling. And I think, unfortunately, a lot of families don't get to experience that because They, you know, say, oh, okay. I'll just buy that curriculum, and that's what we do. You know, they it's still divided into different subjects, and it's like, You know, school at home. And if that works, that's fantastic. And when it doesn't work, people come to me because they need this unique Experience that's really as unique as their child.

Anouk:
Tailored.

Afsaneh Moradian:
And yes. And that really is, like, so different than what we had at school, Cool. But absolutely possible. There's so many different approaches to education, and there's just really, you know, just endless fantastic opportunities.

Anouk:
Yeah. Yeah. I think sometimes that part can definitely be overwhelming too because there's so many opportunities, so many possibilities to approach on schooling. But I also think it's important to to remember that some of our kids are just they don't feel good at all, and I'm I'm sure that will resonate with many listeners. I have some specific people in mind. Like, they they add some so Difficult experiences in school. And some years works well because some teachers are wonderful, and some years it's not working at all. Yeah.

Anouk:
And I think having also the the option to homeschool, if it's something that's doable For for the families, it's also freeing to some extent because you don't feel as trapped in the school system. And, you don't feel as trapped and your child doesn't feel as trapped, then sometimes just it gives you the opportunity to, like, Okay. I'm gonna try. And if it doesn't work, I have an exit strategy.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Sure.

Anouk:
You know? Like, it's if if if I'm if it's not working For our children in school, we're not trapped. It's because sometimes it feels so powerless to say, like, it's not working in school, and I cannot do anything. That feeling is really hard. And so having the option to homeschool and thinking, like, if my children cannot do well in school, It's not the end of the world. There is another option.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Oh, right. Abs absolutely. It's it's really a quality of Life issue lost though. So if your kids are in school and maybe they don't complain about being in school, but then when they're home, it's endless fights over homework. Yeah. It's, you know, endless battles about, you know, organization and getting calls home from the teacher that they don't turn their work in and they don't have all these materials For the projects and, you know, it's like, how is it affecting your relationship with your child also?

Anouk:
Mhmm.

Afsaneh Moradian:
So that I mean, that was the deciding factor for me about homeschooling. My kid was a model student, but being in an academic preschool Took everything out of them to follow directions and do what was asked so that the second we got home, it was you know, I can't. I don't wanna be told what to do at all in any way, and it was the worst. It was just the really the You know, I got the worst of my kid.

Anouk:
Yeah. Yeah.

Afsaneh Moradian:
And I you know, it's like, what relationship are we gonna have if I was gonna spend my whole afternoon saying, you know, Okay. Don't hang from the chandelier. You know? It's like just absolutely, I can't take it anymore. You know? My kid really couldn't handle it. And I just That, you know, what am I what am I gonna do? Am I gonna let my kid be broken? Are we gonna have this horrible relationship every afternoon just to be in school? Or, Mhmm. You know, do I care more about our relationship and our connection? Yeah. And then the learning can flow from that.

Anouk:
Yeah. I think that's very important because, Like and I have the 2 models, and I think lots of parents cannot like, there's those children who just don't do well in school. They are disruptive. They don't follow direction in school. Like, at the the the school is always calling you because this child is doing something. And there's also those Kids that are doing well at school. And if you ask the school, they will tell you that child go does well. They have average grades and they're following direction.

Anouk:
But if they're completely losing it when they go back home, it's because most of the time, school is just too much. And they're using all of the that energy that they have to keep it together at school. And when they come back home, they just melt into a puddle, and they just are not functioning. And

Afsaneh Moradian:
Yeah.

Anouk:
Sometimes that's also a sign that we might miss because they might not complain about school. They might be okay with school. We don't get called by the school, but But then it's not going at all. Like, nothing's going well at home. So we're less prone to think, oh, the school is the problem when when that happens. You know? But it it it is. It can definitely be the school even if everything is happening at home. And most likely, it's It's cool.

Anouk:
Not that something is going bad, but just the school is asking too much of that child.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Sure. Or it's just too stimulating. There's Too much. Just too many kids. You know, for anyone with auditory processing, it's just loud. There's a lot going on. There's a lot of Yeah. Visual stimulation, there's a lot being thrown at you for anxiety.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Mhmm.

Anouk:
Do

Afsaneh Moradian:
you know what what page you're supposed to be on? Are you gonna get called on to read out loud? Yeah. No. I think I think, you know, having open communication as much as possible is really important. The more that you can find out what your child is experiencing when it comes to anything, then you can make an empowered decision That you know is going to be better for them and hopefully for you. Mhmm. But homeschooling really is a balance. So I think it is Anouk you know? Like I said, the beauty of homeschooling is the openness, the flexibility to make it so personalized. That becomes amazing.

Afsaneh Moradian:
But it also has to work for you. If it's a struggle for you, it's a struggle for your child. Yeah. If they're struggling with it you know, what we wanna do is we want we want to, Remove any anxiety or any emotional complications from learning. We want our kids to learn in safe, comfortable environments So that they learn, you know, really beyond their potential, essentially. That that's what we want from their learning. So what does that mean? So it could mean a different classroom. It could mean a different school.

Afsaneh Moradian:
It could mean homeschooling. It could mean you need to change the way you're homeschooling. It could mean, you know, making structural changes and, you know, for teenagers, I don't recommend homeschooling at 9 in the morning. Let them sleep. They are growing. You can do school in the you know, it really to homeschool in that sort of way really is to Set aside all of the expectations, everything that you know about schooling, everything that society says is supposed to happen, Everything even what other homeschooling families are doing.

Anouk:
Yeah.

Afsaneh Moradian:
You know? I don't I don't really like to say what's going well In our homeschooling life, because I know that for some families, that would seem impossible and make them feel bad. And for other families, they might judge, oh, that's That's all you're doing. You know? So I don't really wanna get into that.

Anouk:
Yeah.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Yeah. If it feels good on our end and I see my kid advancing, That's great. If it's you know, if there are power struggles or resistance or, you know, they don't feel good doing something, then it it's up to the parent To figure out how to change that to make it work better. So I do I do think homeschooling should absolutely be seen as an option If you can afford to do it. You know, if you can figure out the logistics of it.

Anouk:
Yeah. Because it's still it's still can be complicated for many families. And for many families, it's Just not an option at all. But if it is, it can definitely feel like less of a trap than having to stay in school. And I I I think also you touched on, like, homework. Some families will just forego homework altogether so they can keep a relationship that That is positive with our children because I'm working there just too much of a power struggle or it's too much. And some school will like, if you Can talk with the teachers. If you can't talk with the school, sometimes it's possible to have that as, like, a, like, the plan of your children for, like, Accommodation.

Anouk:
Sometimes it's not, and it might be a bit more complicated.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Right.

Anouk:
But it's also, like, Not thinking that everything that you should be doing, you have to do as parents, like, when it's school related, can also be helpful. Like, Looking at other option, it's there's no real proof that, for example, homars are absolutely essential in learning. It it can come in so many different ways. So you can, to some extent, apply some principle of homeschooling to Oh, to the the homework and no not doing homework or doing homework in an old schooling approach, which is learning and Integrating the same thing, but in another way than doing the sheets that the school sent home, for example. So I think it's interesting Think of it all outside of the box a little bit.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Definitely. And it it ties back to what we were talking about before. So, really, when your child says no, Be it homework or a homeschooling assignment or getting shoes on, you have to trust that they're saying no for a real reason And then try to figure out what that reason is.

Anouk:
Mhmm.

Afsaneh Moradian:
So that that helps you then figure out what they need, what they're learning Because, you know, the the teachers and the administrators yeah. I mean, I I was a teacher. I have you know, I'm a doctoral Candidate in education. I'm a curriculum writer. I you know, I know all sorts of things about this, but there is a way that education is approached in a classroom, And that is very different than how education is approached for an individual.

Anouk:
Of course.

Afsaneh Moradian:
And the classroom can't meet the needs of individuals in most cases. Right? So they're gonna come at it from their perspective of managing, you know, 25 to 35 bodies in their classroom. Right? And is your child making that easier or harder for them? That's what it comes down to. Not really what kind of learning they need. And so That rather than, like, get into those struggles around homework or whatever, it's really to find out, like, well, why can't you do this? Why isn't this working?

Anouk:
Mhmm.

Afsaneh Moradian:
And then to go to the teacher. And, you know, teachers are just people, and some are going to be flexible and understanding and some Alright. And that's we can't do anything about that. So I think it's really important, like you said, not to feel stuck, You know, to know that there are options I definitely I felt stuck and trapped as a homeschooling parent, actually, in the beginning when it was so tough and I didn't know What to do, and I had to figure it out. That's why I became a homeschooling coach. Like, I don't want other people to be in this situation. I'd rather help them. Yeah.

Afsaneh Moradian:
It's not good to feel as soon as something feels like you're stuck or you're trapped, that should send off alarms that you have to figure out why And then figure out what to do about it. Mhmm. You know, definitely take action.

Anouk:
Yeah. And that applies to everything. Be it homeschooling, schoolwork, or Power struggle. So I really love it ties it all together. Yes. Thank you so much. Before we finish up, is there any, resource that you love? Books or blogs or other people that you know that you wanna share with, with the community.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Absolutely. So if you do not know about Ross Greene and his books

Anouk:
Yeah.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Absolutely. Check out especially the book, The Explosive. In the very beginning of the book, there's a list of Skills that every human needs to have in order to engage in healthy communication.

Anouk:
Mhmm.

Afsaneh Moradian:
And it is really important Because as adults, I think as most of us as adults, we're probably missing a couple of those skills.

Anouk:
Yeah.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Some more than others. I read that with my husband. I was like, wow. I don't know if he has any of these. It was a little he's not going to hear this podcast, so I could say that. It was like, wow. He He really you know, he missed out when he was a kid on learning a bunch of this stuff.

Anouk:
Yeah. But we don't we don't learn we don't learn those skills. Like, it's not that's not thought in school. Right.

Afsaneh Moradian:
And so I realized, like, oh, in this case, I think he's more the explosive child than my child is. You know? It was really helpful Well, to read that, Adam, it it gives it gives you, a foundational understanding, but then there's also, likes like, actual scripts To go through of how to use a different approach to communication, asking questions, really trying to figure things out rather than just Reacting. It's a very, very good book that I think every I think it should really be, like, for all parents to read this book.

Anouk:
But Agree.

Afsaneh Moradian:
That that list of Skills is super helpful because in the moment when you are watching you know, if you kinda watch yourself with your child Yeah. You can say, oh, okay. My child hasn't developed This skill yet. Mhmm. I need it's it's my job to help them develop these skills. Right? Or if I can't, then Is there, you know, a professional that I can bring into our lives who can help my child develop these skills, or I really need to focus on These skills that are harder for me. Skills are just, you're not born with them. You have to practice them, and they have to be developed, Which means that we can develop them as adults, and our kids will develop them.

Afsaneh Moradian:
But there has to be a process put in place To develop and practice those skills. Yeah. Exactly. That's what

Anouk:
to know that you need to practice and learn those skills to be able to do so.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Exactly. Exactly. So I highly recommend The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. I think it's very helpful.

Anouk:
Definitely a great a great recommendation. So thank you very much. If parents want to learn more, if they're already homeschooling or they're thinking about homeschooling, I would love some support. Where do they can find you?

Afsaneh Moradian:
Sure. My website is mlccoaching.com, and, MLC Homeschool Coaching is a Facebook page and, Moradi and Dot apps today is Instagram, and you can send me a DM. And I'll read them, and I'll reply. Okay. And, I'm definitely here if you're having any Cracy's struggles you know? All I deal with the the major difficulties with homeschooling. That's when people come to me. So the communication communication planning and Connection are my the 3 things I focus on.

Anouk:
Great. Great. So we'll put all the links in the show notes so people can easily reach out to you. So Thank you very much for being here today. It was very, nice talking to you.

Afsaneh Moradian:
Thank you for having me.

Anouk:
I'm so glad you joined me today and took that time out of your intense life to focus on finding a new way to parent that works for you and your kids. To get the episodes at Soon As They Drop, make sure to subscribe to the podcast. And please leave everything in review so other parents can find it too. Also, check out all the free resources on my website at familymoments.ca so you can take action on what's the most important for you right now. And take a deep breath. Keep going. We're all in this together.